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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Instead of singing kumbaya with the psychos of the world he might give them this message,
"Effective immediately the United States will not have communications with psycho regimes such as North Korea and Iran, as we know these nations are led by individuals who are nuttier than a Snicker's bar. Should any nation launch a nuclear weapon or other weapon of mass destruction against the United States or our allies, we will immediately turn their nation in a heaping pile of uninhabitable rubble. If a rabid, kooky leader does not believe us, he just needs to ask himself question: Do I feel lucky?...'Well do ya, punk?
'"
Thanks to Ted Nugent for a bit of common sense.
In a related article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1193941/North-Korea-plan-missile-launch-Hawaii-Independence-Day.html
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_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:42 am |
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FStar
F L I N T O I D
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So let's see, North Korea under President Bill Clinton had agreed to a framework for dismantling their nuclear program. North Korea agreed to shut down its major nuclear reactor, stop construction of two nuclear power plants, and allow international inspectors in.
Under Bush, he included North Korea in the "axis of evil", pulled the U.S. out of the non-proliferation treaty (good example for other countries to follow, don't you think?) and generally pissed the little man off by his cowboy talk. Later, he completely ignored North Korea to fight in Iraq - where there were no weapons of mass destruction.
So, why are we where we are now with the North Koreans? Just like he did with the rest of the world, Bush screwed that up too.
As far as singing kumbaya and whatever you're talking about, diplomacy and foreign relations are much more complicated than what freakin Ted Nugent says about blowing our enemies to oblivion. Sure, we could do that, but it's probably not going to happen in reality. We live in the real world and idiots like you and nugent have no idea what you're talking about. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:00 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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From Fstar the lib take on the whole matter.
So let's see, North Korea under President Bill Clinton had agreed to a framework for dismantling their nuclear program. North Korea agreed to shut down its major nuclear reactor, stop construction of two nuclear power plants, and allow international inspectors in. So, why are we where we are now with the North Koreans? Just like he did with the rest of the world, Bush screwed that up too.
And of course here are the real facts on the matter.
North Korea Nukes Clinton Legacy
Charles R. Smith
Asian Arms Race Result of Appeasement Policy
The leftist media spin is that the current crisis in North Asia is the result of George W. Bush calling Pyongyang a member of the 'axis of evil.' In reality, the soft-line appeasement policy taken by Clinton against North Korea and China is what has led us to this point.
For example, former Clinton adviser Paul Begala, now serving as a talking head on CNN, claimed that the Clinton administration contained the threat from North Korea. Clearly, Mr. Begala missed the 1990s.
Of course, Mr. Begala simply forgot that Clinton's military chief of staff testified in 1998 that North Korea did not have an active ballistic missile program. One week later the North Koreans launched a missile over Japan that landed off the Alaska coast.
During the early Clinton years, hard-liners and so-called conservative hawks advocated a pre-emptive strike to halt North Korea's nuclear weapons development before it could field an atomic bomb. Instead of taking the hard line, President Clinton elected to rely on former
President Jimmy Carter and decided to appease the Marxist-Stalinist dictatorship.
Carter met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in Pyongyang and returned to America waving a piece of paper and declaring peace in our time. Kim, according to Carter, had agreed to stop his nuclear weapons development.
The Clinton appeasement program for North Korea included hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, food, oil and even a nuclear reactor.
However, the agreement was flawed and lacked even the most informal means of verification.
In return, Kim elected to starve his people while using the American aid to build uranium bombs. The lowest estimate is that Kim starved to death over 1 million of his own people, even with the U.S. aid program.
Thanks for verifying that idiots like you Carter Clinton and Probably Obama have no idea what you are talking about. But hey keep blaming Bush since thats all you have. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:28 am |
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pan8
F L I N T O I D
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Careful 2tap, you can not have a conversation with this character "FStar" without him resorting to name calling. Typical left wing crap.
No, the BO does not have a pair. As you may recall Jesse Jackass stated publically that he desired to "cut the nuts off" the BO. Jazzy Joe stated that the BO would be tested and i feel that test may come very soon. God help us all 'cause the liberals running our country sure won't. They don't have the intestinal fortitude. 
Pan8 |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:46 am |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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| more cut n' paste from nutjob talking heads. |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:05 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| A true C and P by the way unlessof course you can show otherwise. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:20 pm |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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| F-STAR wanted 2nd. floor psychiatric ward stat!!!!!!! |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:19 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Thats where they sent him? |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:08 am |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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Don't worry everyone. I'm sure America will keep South Korea as a top priority like it has been for 50 years. We are still technically at war with North Korea although an armistice has been declared. In addition our troops do an excellent job of proetecting their border.
No if you're worried about the U.S. borders being protected we might complete that once the Korean War is over. If you're worried about places like Flint Michigan I'm sure our government will solve Flint's problems right after we figure out how to solve the situation in Korea. |
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Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:52 am |
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Dan Moilanen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
Instead of singing kumbaya with the psychos of the world he might give them this message,
"Effective immediately the United States will not have communications with psycho regimes such as North Korea and Iran, as we know these nations are led by individuals who are nuttier than a Snicker's bar. Should any nation launch a nuclear weapon or other weapon of mass destruction against the United States or our allies, we will immediately turn their nation in a heaping pile of uninhabitable rubble. If a rabid, kooky leader does not believe us, he just needs to ask himself question: Do I feel lucky?...'Well do ya, punk?
'"
Thanks to Ted Nugent for a bit of common sense.
In a related article.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1193941/North-Korea-plan-missile-launch-Hawaii-Independence-Day.html
Do you think that the North Koreans don't already know this? If you do, I think that's fairly naive. Read into neo-realism, since you're a conservative you'd probably like the approach to international relations (Hans Morgenthau or John Mearscheimer, anything from them really) because the theory presents nations like individuals who are rational self-interest "maximizers" who will always insure their continued existence and utility maximization. Thus, if North Korea attacked the U.S. (or back when Morgenthau was alive and well the Soviet Union) it would face immediate destruction. North Korea isn't a threat, neither is Iran for that matter... what you should be afraid of are the non-state actors who may potentially hit the united states, North Korea may sell them the materials necessary if they can produce it... now that is a serious threat that can only realistically be resolved via diplomatic/economic options.
Also, do you REALLY think that the Obama administration would not immediately retaliate if a first-strike nuclear ICBM capable of hitting U.S. Territory was launched? If you think it wouldn't, then I think that's fairly naive. Frankly, it's pretty sophomoric of you and Ted Nugent (big surprise there) to resort to name calling and insults concerning the foreign policy actions of a politician you with whom you both disagree and then only to back it up with random right wing blog posts... just saying. |
_________________
-Dan
"I am not a Marxist."
-Karl Marx |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:25 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Do you think that the North Koreans don't already know this?
I dont know if they believe it and neither do you. Their little leader is nuttier than hell and just might put it to the test
.
"Frankly, it's pretty sophomoric of you and Ted Nugent (big surprise there) to resort to name calling and insults concerning the foreign policy actions of a politician you with whom you both disagree and then only to back it up with random right wing blog posts... just saying."
Really and you have been where for the last 8 years I dont remember reading anything from you calling the Bush haters sophomoric while they vented their rage against his policys they disagreed with. Once again you have no way of predicting just what Obama would do in case of an attack but he has laid out plenty of "Cant we just get along clues" Sorry but their are a bunch of us who deided to give Obama the same respect and benefit of the doubt that Bush got.
It sure is humorous that now that Obama is in charge we must suddenly all get along and respect one another.
and give our complete trust and loyalty to the office of the Prez
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_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:20 am |
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Dan Moilanen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
quote:
Do you think that the North Koreans don't already know this?
I dont know if they believe it and neither do you. Their little leader is nuttier than hell and just might put it to the test
.
"Frankly, it's pretty sophomoric of you and Ted Nugent (big surprise there) to resort to name calling and insults concerning the foreign policy actions of a politician you with whom you both disagree and then only to back it up with random right wing blog posts... just saying."
Really and you have been where for the last 8 years I dont remember reading anything from you calling the Bush haters sophomoric while they vented their rage against his policys they disagreed with. Once again you have no way of predicting just what Obama would do in case of an attack but he has laid out plenty of "Cant we just get along clues" Sorry but their are a bunch of us who deided to give Obama the same respect and benefit of the doubt that Bush got.
It sure is humorous that now that Obama is in charge we must suddenly all get along and respect one another.
and give our complete trust and loyalty to the office of the Prez
See the point I was making though is that North Korea would act as a rationalized self-interest maximizer in an anarchic world setting. Under what Morgenthau, Mearscheimer, and other neo-realists argue, North Korea (or the Soviet Union when it existed) would never launch a nuclear weapon with the capacity of hitting the U.S. because of the immediate retaliation from the U.S. but what you're seeing them do is what most scholars refer to as the aptly named "Games of Chicken" they're trying to test the United States to see how far it would go, or to see if they can provoke the United States into first strike. Which won't happen under the Obama administration and really is for the better... the last thing we need is another pre-emptive attack on another nation. Do you really think this country can sustain three wars at once entirely on borrowed money without increasing tax dollars? That's the last thing you conservatives want. China has essentially funded the entire war in Iraq (tax dollars have not increased to directly fund the war effort, while some of your tax dollars already go to it, the majority of the war is funded by sale of government bonds to china and other foreign investors) and would they continue to fund it if it was a direct conflict with North Korea? It's questionable due to the locality of the war and the political culture within the region. |
_________________
-Dan
"I am not a Marxist."
-Karl Marx |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:11 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| You certainly have well thought out responses. That game of chicken you refer to sometimes turns out badly for one or both of the participants. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:28 pm |
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Dan Moilanen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
You certainly have well thought out responses. That game of chicken you refer to sometimes turns out badly for one or both of the participants.
Thanks, you're right though that they can turn out badly... (see Cuban Missile Crisis).
I think the administration needs to essentially "pick it's battles" it can acknowledge North Korea's threats and respond with threats of sanctions or military action, or it can essentially ignore him. Both are risky decisions filled with a massive amount of potential unintended consequences.
If the administration (or even the Bush administration) recognize North Korea's actions as a potential threat to the West or any of its allies (which both administrations have done), it gives Kim Jong Ill exactly what he wants. It gives him the recognition that North Korea has some level of power or "prestige" as one particular theorist (his name evades me at the current moment) argues all nations seek, it's all one big game of vying for prestige. But anyway, it also gives Kim John Ill legitimacy to his people or neighboring countries because if the U.S. feels "threatened" then it shows that North Korea has power and it reinforces this idea to his own people.
If the U.S. ignores North Korea, then you'd probably continue to see potential launches or maybe even a bold attack on South Korea or Japan... which would be very problematic for the United States. But I believe firmly based on the principles within Neo-Realism, that North Korea would never directly attack the United States with a nuclear weapon, since it would lead to their immediate destruction. But like I said, South Korea or Japan is an entirely different matter.
And then again, there's the problem with non-state actors potentially getting their hands on a nuclear weapon through North Korea.
You know what you really should be worried about though? Pakistan. It's a known nuclear power with the capacity to hit U.S. soil and any of our allies, and the government could virtually collapse within months due to the current political unrest in the region. Now that's a scary situation. |
_________________
-Dan
"I am not a Marxist."
-Karl Marx |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:50 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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I have a feeling that you have just replaced Fstar as back agains no.1 hero on the forum. Im sure he will be showing up shortly as soon as he gets out of the local bbg rib joint. calling back again.  |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:54 pm |
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