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shintz62
F L I N T O I D
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I am a 68 yr old retired Flint teacher and I am very new to this board so forgive me if I err in any way.
I am so confused as to what the terms liberal and conservative truly mean in today's society. I would appreciate anything you have in your bag of knowledge that might help me understand these terms.
They are used constantly in online everything.
Also, as I grow in age, I spend more time on the computer and less time reading my newspaper. But, media aside, What are the positives and negatives about Don Williamson and considering his business acumen, shouldn't he be able to find a gimmick to put Flint back on the map? We used to be one of the proudest cities in America. Flint is the birthplace of GM. Sloan Museum has all the old blueprints. Maybe we should restore Flint to those early days. We could even build a plant to produce clones of the early GM products and sell them to collectors. Flint has one of the richest histories in the world. Why doesn't someone start an "Restore Flint" project. Whoa this city had everything including Flint Park. Flint is sitting on a goldmine.
Too much for one topic, ey? I'm old and in a hurry to know, lol.
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:14 am |
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shintz62
F L I N T O I D
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lol, I proofed this 3 times and didn't see the word an instead of a in front of "Restore Flint". I wanted no errors because I dared to say I am a retired Flint teacher. Flint had the greatest teachers in the world. Flint was the one of the first school systems in the world to have computer assisted classrooms. Flint is full of so many first. Where are all the Flint historians? Whew, I'm growing verklempt! lol  |
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:21 am |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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Welcome aboard.
And don't worry about typos.
We're pretty forgiving about typos....I still type with two fingers.
I am confused however, by your thread title "Help: Liberal v Conservative" versus the content of what you wrote.
There doesn't seem to be any connection. Least ways in your content, which seemed pretty non-partisan IMO.
I'd suggest two things:
first, if you are opening up a discussion with liberal v conservative points of view, you should post it to the political board.
second,
make the thread title relevant to your content.
You'll probably provoke more discussion that way!
Welcome and looking forward to your thoughts! |
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Biggie |
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:10 pm |
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shintz62
F L I N T O I D
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I need an understanding as to what is a Liberal and what makes a conservative. Maybe a definition of Liberal and conservative. I don't understand why chatters keep calling others "Libs or Cons".
Also is Mayor Don Willkiamson Lib or con. And does anyone know his positives? What has he done?
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:32 pm |
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Steve Myers
Site Admin
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"Conservatives" tend to believe that traditional values and institutions are the bulwark of society, that too fast of change can result in unintended consequences or even anarchy. Rational conservatives believe in change and reform, of course, but believe the change must be gradual and moderated. Conservatives tend to look to the past for inspiration, cultural stratifications being a consequence of natural order.
"Liberals" tend to believe that traditional values and institutions can impede progress, that too slow of change can result in cultural stagnation or even disintegration. Rational liberals believe in the preservation of traditional values and institutions, of course, but believe they must be pushed to adapt to modern times. Liberals tend to look to the future for inspiration, the progress of history being seen as a march towards a more egalitarian society.
Zachriel's Blog
http://zachriel.blogspot.com/2005/07/liberal-v-conservative.html
Also:
Take the Quiz now and find out where you fit on the political map:
World's Smallest Political Quiz
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html |
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Steve Myers |
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:31 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:45 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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my quick "operational" definition is more along:
conservatives believe in personal responsibility; extending to smallest government possible to discharge the responsibilities spelled out in our constituition.
liberals want an overiding authority to look out for society's welfare; eg; bigger government to control & provide the goods and services of society's wants and needs.
There is a natural tension between those two perspectives, the ying and the yang.....but we can always say we get the governance we deserve.
I would have to say the donald is definitely a "con" as in "ex-con". But he is savvy enough to know a capital R after his name would automatically hurt his chances here in Genesee county. So he talks a D but puts his money on the R, according to past campaign contribution disclosures. Like I said, a very savvy person. Since the office he holds is non-partisan, why would anyone "declare" and risk offending voters. One can certainly let it be known they are in one camp or the other [registered or not] without making a declaration.
I'd say this, the donald is definitely from the school of hard knocks, same finishing school guys like Mayor Richard J. Daley went to. |
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Biggie |
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Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:34 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
my quick "operational" definition is more along:
conservatives believe in personal responsibility; extending to smallest government possible to discharge the responsibilities spelled out in our constituition.
liberals want an overiding authority to look out for society's welfare; eg; bigger government to control & provide the goods and services of society's wants and needs.
There is a natural tension between those two perspectives, the ying and the yang.....but we can always say we get the governance we deserve.
Some liberals want government (their) control over most aspects of your life. They believe all businesses to be evil, stealing from the "poor" and filling their own pockets. They're elitists, bellieving that they know what's "best" for you, and if you'd only live they way they tell you to, life would be wonderful.
Not all liberals are that radical, nor are all conservatives on "the radical right" |
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I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:01 am |
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JBToolFist
F L I N T O I D
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Fallacy number 1
High unemployment rates lead to high violent crime rates
Fallacy number 2
Poor people exist in America.
There is no such thing as "poor" in America. What we call poor should be relabelled "missed opportunity"
The World Health Organization defines extreme poverty as surviving on the equivalent of a dollar a day or less.
Does anyone actually know anybody in America who receives less than a dollar a day from their job, or welfare, or pan-handling?
When is the last time anybody saw a truly starving American child?
I'm not trying to be cold hearted here - but let's be realistic. The people we consider living below the poverty line in this country would be considered rich by most of the world's inhabitants. (the poorest people in America are the most obese - this is absolutely revolting!)
So while there are certainly people who are struggling due to misfortune, a majority of our "poor" and down-trodden really have themselves to blame for their plight (or their parents - for bringing them into an environment that did not stress personal responsibility) |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07pLGIgyfjw
"If you ain't from Flint, then it's like straight up F*&^ You!" - The Dayton Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiV_ue-PbL4 |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:03 am |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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| Holy smokes JB, you expect all the liberals in Genesee County to require personal responsibility. They'll explain to you how the system has kept the poor in their downtrodden positions and how the federal, state and local governments don't give them enough help to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Get a job?! Are you serious? Why should they get a job if they can mooch off the taxpaying citizens of the world. It amazes me when people say they can't find a job and in the next breath they tell you that it is below them to work at McDonalds or Taco Bell. Didn't you just say you needed a job? Whatever! These people nauseate me. |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:26 pm |
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shintz62
F L I N T O I D
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Thanks everyone. I just wanted a plain talk definition. But I do think I understand it now. I had, of course, already read definitions of the two words but I guess it didn't really register. But it does now and I thank you.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:02 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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Hey Shintz, see "Modern U.S. use of the terms" of Left-Right politics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-right_politics
"These terms are widely used in the modern United States, but as on the global level, there is no firm consensus about their meaning. The only aspect which is generally agreed upon is that they are the defining opposites of the United States political spectrum. "Left" and "right" in the U.S. are associated with "liberal" and "conservative," respectively, although the meanings of the two sets of terms do not entirely coincide. Depending on the political affiliation of the individual using them, these terms can be spoken with varying implications."
Meaning, take everyone's opinion with a grain of salt and consider the source.  |
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:01 pm |
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shintz62
F L I N T O I D
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00SL2, yes thank you. It is eactly what I wanted. The link was perfect.
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:01 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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| Although these issues have raged for years there could be a showdown looming if Ron Paul were to win the Republican nomination and seek the repeal of the 16th ammendment and/or kill the personal income tax. |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:09 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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Ol' Saturn, that is a good link. Captures a lot of the nuances of the terms/concepts of liberal/conservatives [left/right] in the US political context.
oh and I especially like the assertion of equality of outcome [liberal/left] versus equality of opportunity [conservative/right].
That one I definitely resonate with the latter. How can you assure the former, when not all people are "equal" in ability, motivation, circumstance, et al?
If a person works 80 hours a week, takes on the challenges and debt say of going to medical school, gets advanced degrees, or works 100 hours a week building a business etc...and you want them compensated the same as someone who doesn't earn a HS diploma, or gets a GED, is indifferent about their work etc.....that doesn't compute in my mental model.
anyway, not to prolong the discussion. good link, much to reflect on, even if it is Wikipedia, a site to be used cautiously, that defintion is more of an editorial/opinion piece, which is fine for the concept in question here. |
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Biggie |
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Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:41 am |
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