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Deena
F L I N T O I D
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| One more thing Two Tap---Whittier is very diverse. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 6:29 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Everyone wants whats best for their kids and if it takes home or private schooling to assure that I am all for it. Unfortunatly many politicans dont see it that way unless of course its their kids they are talking about.I take it that perhaps you now see where I was originally coming from when I posted of the growing popularity of homeschooling. I dont blame ya one bit for not allowing your daughter to be placed in with the gangbanger drug dealing class disrupters that Central has for a student body. Of course if you were to use that anology in front of the schoolboard even though its true you would be labled a racist hatemonger. Flint just dropped one notch lower in its so called comeback and their aint many notchs left. Since as you posted earlier the main reason for you moving to Flint in the first place was the Whittier program I can see little reason to remain there one minute longer than necessary. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 7:03 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Deena schreef:
Nobody is LISTENING to your group Adam!!! And we are supposed to respect your opinion when you are not even aware of the grades that Whittier serves? Actually, don't take that as a slap, I seriously doubt most of the board is aware either.
Rap, you need to go the website for the National Historic Trust and look through the section on schools thoroughly. Communities are finding that they can preserve their historic buildings and make them suitable to the 21st century at a cost far lower than buiding new facilities---that are inevitably of poorer quality. This is entirely feasable with both of these buildings that are certainly not in the dire condition the board has presented to a gullible publis. How many times and in how many ways have Flint taxpayers TOLD the board that they do not want these two schools closed? Are they incapable of hearing?
My best guess is that Mott College wants the buildings. After all they're out of expansion space.
I will fight this until July---and then I will take my daughter with all-A's, all MEAP "1's" to a district that values the traits she brings them. Without Whittier, Flint doesn't have a chance of pulling out of the contempt in which they are held. [/url]
It doesn't really matter if you listen to the group I am on but the board established us and is supposed to at least consider our recommendations. I spoke about Whittier on my own volition completely seperate from the schools committee.
From things I have been hearing it seems everything thinks Flint Central should be the one to close because it is such horrible shape. I went to a very old school building Central elementary which I think is older than the vast majority of Flint buildings and it seems to be in great shape. To be honest I do have an affinity for Flint central. I have heard high schools are very expensive to run do to smaller class sizes so there is an incentive to close them.
If you so happy with Whittier why are you mad at me for trying to keep it unchanged? (although I did suggest making it easier for parents to send their children to Whittier and making efforts to boos enrollment there. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 7:45 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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[quote="Deena"]
quote:
Adam Ford schreef:
hat's actually funny Adam, which of the dozen minority students in the Davison district did you interview for your hypothesis? Could you find even one who wasn't adopted or brought in to play football?
In a nutshell, what the hell are you doing on any Flint committee? It's obvious your heart lies elsewhere.
I'm sorry but I don't have an exact count and didn't do a scientific interview. I don't think any were adopted and none were football stars.
If my heart lied elsewhere I wouldn't be risking my life living in one of the most dangerous cities in America. I know Flint schools are atrocious (minus a few exceptions) and I saw an opportunity to be part of a solution. I also have some political experience and ties to various groups/voters etc. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 7:52 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Deena schreef:
Central students have harrassed Whittier students mercilessly. They have been called "Whittier Geeks" and worse. Some kids have been threatened and beaten up. Whittier students wear uniforms, Central does not---can you think of a better way to target them for abuse? This is an outrageous proposal and it must be stopped in its tracks. Parents have pleaded to just give Whittier a building to use---one of the closed elementaries, a leased space from one of the colleges, even a renovated downtown office. But DON'T set them up this way. They've done NOTHING to deserve it.
I have great qualms about removing my daughter from the best school I have ever been involved with. I'm certainly not the only parent planning such action. Perhaps this bored (and boring) school board will listen to the sound of footsteps---or they will when the district MEAPs take another dive.
I have had emails not answered and phone calls not returned. These egotistical and rude "representatives" don't need my tax dollars it seems---and my taxes are $3000 a year.
http://whittier.flintschools.org/
Try this.
So even though Whittier students will supposedly be kept on a seperate floor it sounds like you are agreeing with my main point that I made at the board meeting that we should be wary of changing the Whittier program and moving it into the Flint Central building. I heard an unverified rumor that Flint might have felt the need to move Whittier into Central to because of the labs that Central has and Wittier needs those labs for the ib program. Can you verify or discredit this?
Have you thought about speaking to the board? I knew I was a little outgunned but I did have some concerns. I was the only one defending Whittier at the board meeting. Vera Perry seemed to take it as an insult that I was saying Flint Central was a bad school.
Have you ever thought about running for school board?
On a seperate note do you think the Whittier model could somehow be transferred to the other schools in the district? I have consistently been hearing that Whittier is the best school in Flint but its nice to hear more details from a parent who actually enrolls their children there. |
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Fri May 09, 2008 8:04 pm |
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Deena
F L I N T O I D
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OMG Adam, you frustrate me!!! Of course the IB program cannot be "transferred" to another school. This is not some "honor" received, the IB accreditation is a long-term investment in teacher training, school commitment student preparedness. Should someone decide that Central will suddenly "become the IB program" for Flint, the International IB association will turn them down flat. A LOT of work has gone into building this program and the teacher training is very rigorous and definitive. WHITTIER has EARNED this accreditation, it was NEVER a gift.
Read more:
http://www.ibo.org/general/who.cfm
As I said earlier, I have addressed the board at the budget meeting. I have never seen nine bumps on a log less interested in commumity opinion. I have no interest in running for the board, I have a full plate, a mother will Alzheimer's, a 12 year old daughter who is active in both in and out of school activities, and a husband who works out of town most of the week. I was, however, a staunch supporter of Michael Cross and I think often of the difference he might have made right now.
Whittier needs labs. To make that the reason for the school closing is ludicrous. Given that this board spent $4,000,000 on renovations two years ago for two of the schools they are now opting to close, that might be the shallowest excuse I've yet heard. At one time Whittier housed 9th grade. Biology labs are still there. They need chemistry labs and a technology update---as does Central. I sure would like to see a large and modern science and tech building constructed BETWEEN Whittier and Central. Bet it would be a whole lot less money than tearing down those two great old buildings and building new!
Let me ask YOU a question. Why would this board not float a bond proposal for new construction? Every proposal before the voters, except one passed last Tuesday. Are they that afraid of how this community views them? |
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Sat May 10, 2008 4:40 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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Please help me get this straight in my mind....
You're saying that the entire IB program cannot be moved, 100% intact, from Whittier to another building without losing the IB accreditation? That would mean that it can't be moved to a brand new building, either. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Sat May 10, 2008 4:59 pm |
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Deena
F L I N T O I D
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The IB program IS being moved intact---teachers, administrators, and studenta---to Central HS. That is a very poor decision. As I said earlier, parents, students and staff would have happily moved to ANY building where they are independent. The board wore earplugs.
And Dave, no teacher without IB certification can teach there without receving IB training. I hope you take the time to look through the IB website. Look at the university options open to those who pass the examinations!! How can we continue to treat these kids---the best and brightest Flint students---like they are worthy of being shoved somewhere to become "part of" another schools....a school with different standards, different curriculum etc,, Find them their own building wherever it can be found, and place them there. All they want is to remain independent. |
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Sat May 10, 2008 7:13 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Deena schreef:
Let me ask YOU a question. Why would this board not float a bond proposal for new construction? Every proposal before the voters, except one passed last Tuesday. Are they that afraid of how this community views them?
If I had to make an educated guess I would imagine the school bond proposal will be on next years May ballot. |
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Sat May 10, 2008 8:01 pm |
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squash
F L I N T O I D
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If there is a bond proposal on the ballot next year I predict it will be soundly defeated. The voting community in Flint does not trust the BOE and the administration with more money. And rightly so.
Deena I couldn't agree with you more about the lack of vision on the part of the current board. It makes me long for the days of Herb Cleaves. At least he had an opinion and was willing to offer more than the sorry, stale platitudes we get now. (We must do what's best for the children) I have met two of the current board members and had a chance to speak to them. It struck me that they had very little passion for what they were doing. I can think of no reason that these people are on the school board other than to satisfy their own ego. The loss of Mike Cross was devastating. Like you, I often wonder how he would have changed the direction of the board.
A couple of things that this board could do to redeem itself.
1. Negotiate a retirement buyout. In my opinion it wouldn't take much. Even a 5 to 10 k payout would lure a lot of people into retirement. There are way too many at the top of the pay scale and we do nothing to get and keep good young teachers in the district. (see the pink slipping that occurs every year)
2..Eliminate some of these bureaucratic positions like literacy coach etc. and put them in front of students. If they are good teachers they will be making more of an impact. If not they will retire.
3. Close 2 high schools please.
4. Keep the IB program alive. We have killed gifted and talented programs in the past (remember Walker, Doyle Rider?) and it has been a mistsake |
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Sat May 10, 2008 9:47 pm |
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rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D
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The IB program should have been placed at SW in the first place. While SW was still an academy. As a school within a school. Resulting in academy children trying to achieve higher status to enter the IB program -growing the program.
Instead Milton screwed up SW and put IB kids next to Central. It made NO sense at all to put that few no# of kids in that dinosaur building. not to mention having them beat up/ridiculed on the shared campus.
Flint schools should sue Milton for devastating the budget in a multitude of ways.
The cost to renovate Central or Whitter is equal to building a new school.
It costs much to renovate an elementary to fit larger students. Drinking fountains raised higher. Toilets taller. Lockers installed etc. It was done before when Johnson Elementary was made into AAA.
FBOE does not have the funds to put the IB program into Cummings. THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN!
Deena, If (large if) you have a large ongoing parent support to keep the IB program into an independant building you may be able to convince the Board to put the program into Johnson.
Still the board will have to cut elsewhere to match the estimated cost savings of closing that building. They must have a balanced budget at the end of June.
When you get past your anger you will begin the bargaining. Come up with an alternate plan that is cost efficient and present it to the board.
I truly wish you and yours the best.
Peace,
RAP |
_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963 |
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Sat May 10, 2008 10:02 pm |
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rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
squash schreef:
If there is a bond proposal on the ballot next year I predict it will be soundly defeated. The voting community in Flint does not trust the BOE and the administration with more money. And rightly so.
Agreed!!!
Deena I couldn't agree with you more about the lack of vision on the part of the current board. It makes me long for the days of Herb Cleaves. At least he had an opinion and was willing to offer more than the sorry, stale platitudes we get now. (We must do what's best for the children) I have met two of the current board members and had a chance to speak to them. It struck me that they had very little passion for what they were doing. I can think of no reason that these people are on the school board other than to satisfy their own ego.
Cleaves was full of sound and fury (satisfying his ego) never any results- no follow through- he did sometimes have good ideas, yet no action.
The loss of Mike Cross was devastating. Like you, I often wonder how he would have changed the direction of the board.
[color=cyan]AGREED
[/color]
A couple of things that this board could do to redeem itself.
1. Negotiate a retirement buyout. In my opinion it wouldn't take much. Even a 5 to 10 k payout would lure a lot of people into retirement. There are way too many at the top of the pay scale and we do nothing to get and keep good young teachers in the district. (see the pink slipping that occurs every year)
[color=cyan]Dr. Chow tried this gave great options- teachers turned it down flat. Well, worth trying again.
[/color]
2..Eliminate some of these bureaucratic positions like literacy coach etc. and put them in front of students. If they are good teachers they will be making more of an impact. If not they will retire.
Milton plan- high cost: lost many lower cost parapros and host volunteers to do almost the same. Took some of the best teachers out of the classroom.
Sue Milton! or at least undo his reforms.
3. Close 2 high schools please.
WHICH 2?
4. Keep the IB program alive. We have killed gifted and talented programs in the past (remember Walker, Doyle Rider?) and it has been a mistsake
The common demonimator in these programs that Do well are involved parents. We need to expand these programs and encourage parent involvement.
Peace,
RAP
PS. this is a prom night- Hope all these kids get home safely. AMEN
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_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963 |
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Sat May 10, 2008 10:59 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Deena. Have you considered getting all the like minded parents you can together for a protest rally in front of Whittier. Get the Journal involved along with ch12 and if possible the national media. State your case about the school and what an injustice it would be to close the possibly one bright spot in Flints education system. Have the facts and figures ready to if possible tell on camera. Invite the Don to attend and give him a chance to do the right thing in front of the media. Ill bet ch 12 would get involved and of course the journal also. It works for other groups who feel they are getting shafted it might be worth a try. |
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Sun May 11, 2008 7:06 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| That could work. Put public heat on the board to explain why they're killing the best program the Flint schools have. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Sun May 11, 2008 7:23 am |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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| I emailed the board and superintendent this discussion. |
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Sun May 11, 2008 9:50 am |
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