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Joe
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Its proven in places like Chicago, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, San Fran, South Beach.. Ghetto's have been turned into the place where everyone wants to be. The reason??? The Creative Class, Gays, Artist, College Kids, Upper Class people.
Open some gift shops, book stores, Gay bars... In Royal Oak there is Pronto's, Como's.. Why not in Downtown Flint? |
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Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:56 pm |
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Wood Ether
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Creative Class is a lie. Richard Florida ignores the fact that the poor don't disappear, rather they're merely pushed out by yuppie development. Sure, yuppies gentrify neighborhoods but the jobs they create are low paying service positions. The people that work these jobs are forced to move further and further to the edge of the cities. It doesn't alleviate poverty, it just shuffles it around. Besides, most trendy Creative Class locales are increasingly white. More boutiques may be good for the tax base but it isn't neccasarily good for society.
The gay savior thing is a bust too. That stereotype of gays as entreprenuers just isn't true. The creative class gay solution is actually a YUPPIE gay solution. Flint HAS a sizable gay population, believe it or not, its just that many gay folks in Flint are just like straight Flintoids- low wage earners, couch potatoes, video game players, etc. Gays and college kids WON'T ride in on a white horse and save Flint. We need an original strategy. I'm thinking Lewiston...
Turning downtown Flint into a strip of boutiques will do nothing to significantly improve the city. People won't flock downtown just to go to a book store. Think Pages. You need stable neighborhoods surrounding downtown and throughout the city. Downtown could use a gay bar, but more importantly it needs affordable housing, a hardware store, a drug store, laudromat, grocery... things sustainable neighborhoods must have in order to survive.
Michigan is maxed out for neo-urban hipster neighborhoods. Few are going to move to Flint when they can choose from Ferndale, RO, EL, Lansing, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Ypsi, Ann Arbor, Hamtramck etc etc etc. Downtown is not the solution, fixing the neighborhoods and attracting families is. Stable families ensure succesive generations of more stable families. Artists, gays, college kids, and rich people just don't have many kids. Eventually they move on. My solution? Make Flint a haven for immigrants. How do you do that? GIVE property away to refugees and immigrants who promise to repair the property. The Creative Class didn't save Chicago, Mexican families have. |
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Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:50 pm |
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John Wilson
F L I N T O I D
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That was a well thought out and elequent statement. I really liked that. I have some minor problems with it, but overall I agree.
But white money and gentrification is what downtown Flint needs. The poor in Flint need any jobs, any at all. Let's get 'em off the streets first working anywhere they possibly can, then lets set 'em up to be the owners and shopkeepers.
Yes, in NYC particularly, all busboys are Mexican, and probably illegal. But they run the city. Can't live without 'em. But they save, and save, and move up to cook, and then other positions. Not always and its not that picture perfect but opportunity they do not have in Mexico.
Creative or gay or Mexican or whatever, downtown needs gentrification. I want Grand Blanc and Flushing and Clarkston money coming into downtown Flint. Do not compete with Miller/Linden, instead do something rare and unique like Sagautuck or something where its quaint and cool and fresh.
Funky cool stores attract dollars, youth, and community.
Gentrification is not necessarily white, but it usually is. And yes, the poor get shifted around, and the best way to handle that in my opinion is to do what they do in NYC where they have some "affordable" housing mixed with market rate. "Affordable" by the way is still out of reach for most, especially the poor. But there is a good mix that can be had with the right plan.
Everyone, rich or poor, always wants a nice clean place to call their own. That's the bottom line. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:09 am |
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James
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I agree, more gays, more disposable income!
Flint needs to Gentrify.
Why not get small shops down here, get the chinese to
open a store, blacks to open a soul food place, gays to
open creative stores and shops.. Mexicans to open a
mexican restaurant.. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:58 pm |
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Wood Ether
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GB, Clarkston, and Flushing residents aren't enough to sustain downtown. Neither is the white collar workforce that works there everyday. GBers and Flushing residents will spruce up their downtowns before they'll venture Flintward. Most of these folks are more "suburban big box" than "faux urban chic". Cute shops will fail with people filling the surrounding neighborhoods who can't afford to shop there. Besides, I care about the CITY OF FLINT, not just downtown. Nevertheless, all of this creative class hysteria: condos, yuppie cafes, college students- just reeks of Water Street, Autoworld, and Windmill Place. Big plans that are a few years behind the curve and destined to failure because they turn their back on the rest of the city.
It may be less glamourous, but Flint needs families. Flint needs boring businesses like hardware stores, pharmacies, and groceries. Creating a neo-urban mini-theme park downtown may sound like fun, but it can't be sustained. Funky cool stores attract some $$ when THOUSANDS of customers live within walking distance, but they won't last if their customers have to drive in from 15-20 miles away. Besides, I would hate to see a Flint with a glittering heart but a decaying body.Demand for these things just does not exist in Flint.
Flint's strategy has to change. Supporters have to be realistic. Flint WILL NOT beccome Royal Oak. We missed that train 25 years ago. Flint can be at the cutting edge of the next big urban renewal trend. It's not new, in fact its been proven to work for centuries: Immigration. Next to the Magnificent Mile the largest retail district in Chicago is La Villita- a 99% Mexican neighborhood with nary an antique store or oxygen bar. The schools are packed, families have opened small businesses, the streets are bustling, and the cycle will repeat itself for generations.
For downtown to thrive the developers have to stop charging extortionary rents. Affordable rent will attract dedicated renters. Real estate speculation has stifled downtown. Uptown is concerned with one thing: Profit.
The gay gentrification stereotype does'nt fly in Fliint. Go to the State Bar, Pachyderm, or Club Triangle sometime. You'll see alot of gay folk drink, but not neccasarily alot of wealth. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:57 pm |
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Robert
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So basically I a bunch of alliens, running around sucking off the public tit to get by in life. Demanding we teach them in Spanish, and change are street signs etc.
We need diversity, we need a mix of people.. One thing Flint does not have now is GAYS downtown. I agree with the two people above. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:23 pm |
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Wood Ether
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Robert- You listen to too much talk radio or Fox News or something. Mexicans work sooooo much harder than most "Americans" on average. They have stronger families, stronger communities, and for better or for worse the children of immigrants become TOTALLY assimilated into plastic honky MTV culture soon enough. They are excellent entreprenuers and despite poverty their urban communities are bustling. Spend some time around immigrants instead of regurgitating the propaganda and your mind will change.
Flint doesn't have "gays downtown"? Au contre. Go to The Torch or The Backroom on any given night and gays are strongly represented. Believe it or not Flint has a substantial gay population. Maybe not a sterotypical yuppie boutique owner gay population, but a sizable one when compared to similar cities nonetheless. If you expect neo-urban gay oxygen bar owners to come save downtown you're nuts. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:06 pm |
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Wood Ether
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| Why would immigrants demand to be taught Spanish? Don't many already speak the language? Dunno what your refering to with the street sign thing, probably taking one incident and blowing it out of proportion, but last time I was in NYC, Chicago, and SF all the signs were still in English. As far as "sucking off the public tit"- most immigrants work numerous jobs and countless hours. Get with reality dude. Besides, your ancestors were probably immigrants at one time as well. Did they assimilate immediately upon arrival or did they settle in communities with folks of similar background? My guess is the latter since that is the story of 99% of all immigrants. Besides, who says I was just refering to Mexicans. Flint would be an excellent haven for refugees from Afghanistan, Darfur, and Iraq. Crime would be less than intimidating and the oppurtunity to accquire property for very little $$ is all around. Immigrants made Flint into what it was in the 50s and 60s. Time for another go around at the old tried and true. |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:15 pm |
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guest
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quote:
Joe schreef:
Its proven in places like Chicago, Ferndale, Royal Oak, Birmingham, San Fran, South Beach.. Ghetto's have been turned into the place where everyone wants to be. The reason??? The Creative Class, Gays, Artist, College Kids, Upper Class people.
Open some gift shops, book stores, Gay bars... In Royal Oak there is Pronto's, Como's.. Why not in Downtown Flint?
quote:
"Where everyone wants to be"
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Preposterous!
Take away the criminal justice system (jail,court,etc), unemployment services and the welfare department and what's left to bring people downtown? NOTHING. What exists in Flint, exists elsewhere & in a better /safer (even if only cosmetically) setting; lest it be a local and specific fashion which serves but one class-group of the Flint community as a whole. Flint essentially died when auto companies closed and/or moved away and would take turning her again into a major industrial town to bring about a resurrection. R.I.P. Flint |
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Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:23 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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| I've heard Granholms cool (aka gay) cities initiatives have been a dud. Without police presence I doubt gays or straight people would want to come downtown. Flint has screwed up and could have a vibrant night life but when people get gunned down at night clubs it kind of puts a damper on things. Maybe with these new officers we could maintain a police presence at some of our night spots and prevent shootings which the Don has used to close down night clubs. I don't know why anyone would want to open a night club in Flint when they risk getting shut down by the mayor if some punk decides he wants to shoot someone. |
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Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:58 am |
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Jason
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Adam, do you realize " Don" Mayor Williamson shut down those clubs cause they caused major problems in the community. They also were places where numerous people were killed, drugs sold etc.
I am glad he shut them down! |
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Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:44 pm |
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John Wilson
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Wood Ether schreef:
GB, Clarkston, and Flushing residents aren't enough to sustain downtown. Neither is the white collar workforce that works there everyday. GBers and Flushing residents will spruce up their downtowns before they'll venture Flintward.
Tru dat, but again, all GB, Clarkston and Flushing have are strip malls, Wal-Mart, and other garbarge.
Downtown Flint has some quaint, alt lifestyle, artsy stuff that could really be more like Berkley, CA. The burbs people get sick of their strip malls and want to come to the funky places now and then. I say try the arts side of the economic coin. It's more youth-orientated and right by all the school activity downtown.
Speaking of the whole "college town" thing... Flint cannot be a college town until people live downtown/goto school and COMMUTE to WORK. Right now the kids drive to school, then go back home.
Flip that script around, and you've got something. |
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Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:31 pm |
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Richard
F L I N T O I D
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| I've said if before and will say it again, "Convert downtown Flint into the exact structure as to what the City of Milwaukee, WI did with their downtown." It would be amazing to see downtown Flint entirely enclosed and would bring new life to the area. Yes, it would only supply service jobs but, you have to start somewhere. With an enclosed downtown city it would be serviceable year round and would give a new meaning to mall. All kinds of things would then sprout from this local. |
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Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:12 pm |
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Richardd
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| A GOOD MIX OF PEOPLE.. GAYS IN CLUDED.. |
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Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:44 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
roscoevanzandt schreef:
quote:
Wood Ether schreef:
GB, Clarkston, and Flushing residents aren't enough to sustain downtown. Neither is the white collar workforce that works there everyday. GBers and Flushing residents will spruce up their downtowns before they'll venture Flintward.
Tru dat, but again, all GB, Clarkston and Flushing have are strip malls, Wal-Mart, and other garbarge.
Huh? Where are the strip malls in Flushing and Clarkston?
Both Flushing & Clarkston have well defined "downtown" areas. Small, but quaint and not malls. GB, well downtown is a little more diffuse. The new Walmart/Sams/Kohls development isn't in Grand Blanc, its in the township. Townships suffer from a lack of a core "downtown" area.
Rochester has a well defined downtown area; Rochester Twp. has various strip malls "lifestyle" centers and malls.
Flint could be more like Royal Oak or Berkley, or even Oak Park; its too big to be a Romeo or Richmond. |
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Biggie |
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Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:12 pm |
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