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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Adam, if a member of the council or the mayor has a question or concern about something done by a city employee, he or she should take the matter to the council as a whole. There the matter can be examined and a recommendation be voted upon. If a majority agrees, an investigation could occur. What happened here is akin to a member of the House going out on his own and having the Attorney General investigate a political enemy without the approval of the majority, or the knowledge of the Governor. What they did resulted in a large bill from the city's attorney which now needs to be paid, and an innocent employee getting screwed.
Have you heard about those Senators that "interfere" with the Presidnet and go to Iraq and see how the troops on the ground are doing? They tropps and commanders are part of the administration but they senators still talk to them and do inquiries. From what the article was saying it almost sounds like Fred was doing an inquiry into the bid process like Conressman and Senators do inquiry's on the ground in Iraq.
For a member of the city of Davison or a council member to not be allowed to ask questions of an administration seems either corrupt or boneheaded to me.
How did the city employee get screwed? |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:59 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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| Why didn't you highlight that last paragraph, the one that states that Mr. Klassen did nothing wrong? Adam, why are you always so intent on missing the important point? There is no shame in passing on a discussion when you don't know the facts. There are rules in place for a reason, and this isn't the first time these guys have broken them. What part of my description of their offenses do you not understand? Please re-read what I've already written before you answer. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:05 pm |
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Brian Warner
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Adam, did you read this part of my post... "this stuff has been happening frequently and consistently by these two since last November."
This isn't the first time these two have meddled in city operations.
As Kevin stated, their actions were illegal. They will finally face accountability for their actions. It's been a long time coming.
Brian Klaassen broke no rules. He followed councils direction as he should have. If anything, council as a whole maybe should have listed this bid proposal in the paper. I believe their is a loophole in the charter verbiage that basically states that no rules were broken in this bidding process, because the dealerships in question were pre-approved by council long ago. The question is, Does council have to post a bid request in the paper for each purchase over $2500? Or can they just send out bid requests to the "pre-approved" dealers?
Either way, Brian Klaassen, and his actions, had nothing to do with this, and an investigation of his actions were unnecessary, uncalled for, and illegally pursued by these two. In questioning a city employee's actions in the manner in which they did, they broke the rules. The suggestion that they did it as "concerned citizens" is a poor argument because THEY ARE NOT JUST CONCERNED CITIZENS. THEY ARE ELECTED OFFICIALS OF THE CITY AND THEY SHOULD ALWAYS ACT AS SUCH! They are both required to know the charter. The fact that they acted before insuring they were not breaking a charter, was irresponsible. That is a fact that the papers should have reported, as it was made clear during the meeting. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:23 pm |
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Adam
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I wanted to highlight the parts you might have skimmed over and missed judging by your hevily bieased post. Who should be punished for violating the bidding ordinance?
What else have they "meddled in".
So you think the davison city attorney should prosecute these two for looking into what was an illegal bidding process? What about the people who did the illegal bidding process. Should they get off scott free since you think Fred and the other guy shouldn't have been looking into it?
Was Brian the one that did what could have been an illegal bidding process?
Since you guys care so much about ordinances and following proper rules are you happy Fred may have helped uncover an illegal bidding process? |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:33 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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| Like I said, re-read what I've written, and re-read the article. No laws were broken in the bidding process. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:49 pm |
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Adam
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Perhaps you should have the journal correct their article.
"City Manager Dale Martin acknowledged the city has not been complying with city code requirements for advertising for bids when making purchases." |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:57 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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| I will grant that the article could have explained that point better. At the meeting, it was pointed out that the ordinance mentioned in that quote states that requests for bids should be made in a public announcement "and/or a newspaper announcement". It has been the practice of the city going back to before Mr. Klassen's tenure as DPW director to simply send letters inviting bids to relevant companies. Having said that however, I must say you have an annoying habit of ignoring pertinent facts in order to defend your point. As I and the article stated, Mayor Fortner and council member Jim Hershberger were legally required to bring their concerns to the council, where they probably would have been considered by the council as a whole in an executive session in order to protect everyone's right to not be falsely accused in public. The council would have voted and directed the City Manager on its decision. Instead, they started their own investigation, stuck the city with the bill. (continued in a moment. . ) |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:18 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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| Mayor Fortner and Mr. Hershberger did this to smear an innocent employee. Adam, how well do you thing your place of business would work if it suddenly had seven extra people, all with their own personal agendas, appointing themselves as directors? The ordinance is clear for a reason. The council acts as a whole, and they direct the City Manager by majority vote. The Manager then is the sole source of direction and day-to-day supervision of city employees. Mr. Fortner and Mr. Hershberger knew this, or should have, yet they set off on their own personal agenda to take down an employee. Now that employee has been shown to have been doing his job as directed. It's pretty clear actually, I'm not sure why you have such a knee-jerk reaction causing you to automatically defend these actions. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:27 pm |
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Brian Warner
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Well, why don't we just give every council member a deputy badge and a gun and let them fight crime where ever they see it. Oh, wait a minute, THERE WAS NO CRIME COMMITTED ON BRIAN KLAASSEN'S PART!
CAN YOU SEE THAT ADAM!!!
So, putting a gun and badge on these two would have been a dangerous move. They would have shot the wrong person! READ THIS ADAM...
Klaassen did nothing wrong, he followed councils' direction. IF there is any blame to be had, it would be on council, AS A WHOLE, and, ADAM, your boys are part of that council. Though they seem to forget that there are other members of council they need to work with. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:24 pm |
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Adam
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Kevin, So in other words you did nothing while you were on the council about the illegal bid process? Since you are so down on Fred for breaking the rules why did you let it slide?
So Fred should slander an employee in public before he's sure there's even any wrongdoing?
There are some politicians like myself that might not be willing to cast stones at wrongdoers like yourself who failed to act on code violations before throwing boulders at them.
It sounds like your interpretation migh be lunacy. There is a thing called due dilligence. Sometimes it's good to do due dilligence before making allegations in public.
On another note do you consider it "interference" to question members of the administration before writing an ordinance or do you think it's better to just wing it? If so I can see how a judge would laugh at the undue strain your ordinance/charter poses on public officials and perhaps even the general public while protecting government secrecy. . |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:30 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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FOCUS, ADAM!
THERE HAD BEEN NO ILLEGAL BIDDING! READ THE ARTICLE!
Honestly, usually I find your refusal (or inability?) to understand simple statements of fact amusing, but I find your repeated smearing of an innocent employee in order to support this knee-jerk need of yours to back your friend infuriating.
There was an honest disagreement over time on vague language in the ordinance. The ordinance is one of thousands. Don't give me this crap about due diligance.
Read the last paragraph of the article again. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:53 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Brian Warner schreef:
Well, why don't we just give every council member a deputy badge and a gun and let them fight crime where ever they see it. Oh, wait a minute, THERE WAS NO CRIME COMMITTED ON BRIAN KLAASSEN'S PART!
CAN YOU SEE THAT ADAM!!!
So, putting a gun and badge on these two would have been a dangerous move. They would have shot the wrong person! READ THIS ADAM...
Klaassen did nothing wrong, he followed councils' direction. IF there is any blame to be had, it would be on council, AS A WHOLE, and, ADAM, your boys are part of that council. Though they seem to forget that there are other members of council they need to work with.
Maybe you guys should go to a more dictatorial type of government so you won't have to worry about transparency in government. Have you heard of the Freedom of Information Act. I think it would save Davison money if you allowed people Like Fred and Hershberger and private citizens and outsiders ask questions of public officials instead of making them do FOIA's. Who knows you mmight even get a fair bidding process that follows the code.
There's a difference between obstructing an administration and questioning an administration. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:09 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
FOCUS, ADAM!
THERE HAD BEEN NO ILLEGAL BIDDING! READ THE ARTICLE!
Honestly, usually I find your refusal (or inability?) to understand simple statements of fact amusing, but I find your repeated smearing of an innocent employee in order to support this knee-jerk need of yours to back your friend infuriating.
There was an honest disagreement over time on vague language in the ordinance. The ordinance is one of thousands. Don't give me this crap about due diligance.
So what do you define "in violation of the code" as being. I didn't say the employee was the one responsible for not following the code but I think he should be questioned as to why he didn't follow the city code. That may not be illegal but it doesn't sound proper for a city to violate its own rules.
In addition I'm confused why you weren't concerned with the code violations while you were on council?
You didn't make any new laws on the people while you were councilman? Perhaps you should have read the "thousands of ordinances" Davison is under before making new ones so that way the city wouldn't be violating its own rules it set for itself. Kind of reminds me of Flint. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:27 pm |
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Kevin McKague
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| Seriously, Adam. You've got to read my answers to those questions from the first and second time you asked. You've become quite tedious. This simply isn't one of those arguments you can fake your way thorough. This is my back yard we're talking about. For the last time: re-read the article and my previous answers. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:49 pm |
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Adam Ford
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| Does the term "non compliant" bidding process work for you? I guess Im still hung up on what you seem to think is a misleading quote by your city manager. |
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:05 pm |
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