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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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So Kevin isn't it true that ads were not put out? If so maybe you could give us your special interpretation of...
246.07 FORMAL CONTRACTS; BIDDING PROCEDURE.
(a) Required. For all supplies and contractual services, except as otherwise provided in this chapter, when the estimated cost thereof exceeds two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), Council shall authorize the purchase by formal, written contract with the lowest responsible bidder, after due notice inviting proposals. For all sales of personal property which has become obsolete and unusable, when the estimated value exceeds two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), Council shall authorize the sale by formal, written contract to the highest responsible bidder, after due notice inviting proposals.
(b) Notice Inviting Bids.
(1) Newspaper publication. Notice inviting bids shall be published once in at least one official newspaper in the City at least five days preceding the last day set for the receipt of proposals.
(2) Scope of notice. The newspaper notice required by paragraph (b)(1) hereof shall include a general description of the articles to be purchased or sold and shall state where bid blanks and specifications may be secured and the time and place for bid openings.
(3) Bidders list. Council shall authorize the Purchasing Agent to solicit sealed bids from all responsible prospective suppliers who have requested their names to be added to a bidders list, which the Agent shall maintain, by sending them a copy of such newspaper notice or such other notice as will acquaint them with the proposed purchase or sale. In any case, invitations sent to the vendors on the bidders list shall be limited to commodities that are similar in character and ordinarily handled by the trade group to which the invitations are sent.
(4) Bulletin board. The agent shall also advertise all pending purchases or sales by a notice posted on the public bulletin board in the City Hall. |
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Adam Ford
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Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:08 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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I guess I still don't understand how this charter ties in with Jim Hershberger and Fred Fortner, HANDLING THIS SITUATION THE WRONG WAY, VIOLATING A CHARTER OF THEIR OWN IN DOING SO, by calling for an "investigation involving the police chief if needed" on Brian Klaassen and his actions. Brian Klaassen did as he was instructed to do. If Fortner and Hershberger wanted to question council about the way Brian was instructed to bid, then they should have done that. They didn't. The two of them privately went after a city employee, for no reason.
Fortner and Hershberger used the word "investigation" and phrase "involve the police chief if needed" and only after they realized they were going to face consequences did they play dumb and didn't remember saying those things. HMMMMMM that seems odd.
Adam, I get the feeling that you think it's okay for them to break the law because they THOUGHT the law was being broken. Surely you three know better than that don't you? |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:02 am |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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| That isn't the only pertinent ordinance, and I can't vouch for this copy you've provided, since I don't have my ordinance book with me, and I an unable to access the internet ordinance database on my cell browser. This is all a moot point, of course, because the real issue, the one you're so desperately trying to distract us from, is that the mayor and Mr. Hershberger don't have the authority to initiate an investigation without a majority vote of the whole council. They are the only ones in this who willingly broke the law. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:05 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
That isn't the only pertinent ordinance, and I can't vouch for this copy you've provided, since I don't have my ordinance book with me, and I an unable to access the internet ordinance database on my cell browser. This is all a moot point, of course, because the real issue, the one you're so desperately trying to distract us from, is that the mayor and Mr. Hershberger don't have the authority to initiate an investigation without a majority vote of the whole council. They are the only ones in this who willingly broke the law.
Nice dodge attempt Kevin. Do you know what this is? Just to clarify it's Davison's purchasing ordinance. Maybe you should have bothered to read it when you were a counilman. Too bad you were too worried about not looking out for the taxpayer so as to not get in the way of an administration that wanted to soak the taxpayer huh Kevin?
Why are you so worried about an investigation? Got something to hide?
If Fred doesn't have the authority to look into possible wrongdoing than he should be commended as a hero for having the guts to bring an inept administration into the limelight.
Do you understand what you are saying Kevin? I could use an extreme example for you but I'll try and keep it real simple. If Fred thought there was wrongdoing but the majority of the council didn't he should just let it go? Sounds a little fascist/shady to me.
It seems a little fishy that you are on a witchunt for Fred who exposed a potentally if not corrupt bidding process in your city that you supposedly love but failed to notice while you were on the council.
If I was Fred I'd ask why
the city has a 1980 ordinance requiring advertising for bids on purchases exceeding $2,500, but the city has not complied with that requirement since 1995, for unknown reasons.
Any clue what those unknown reasons might be mister former councilman? Or were you to worried about not causing the administration any problems back then?
Kind of strange such a generic ordinance would be so overlooked. You seem like such a smart guy I'm surprised you never picked up on that.
Maybe Fred is onto something??? |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:31 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Why didn't you highlight that last paragraph, the one that states that Mr. Klassen did nothing wrong?
What makes you think he did nothing wrong? Violating the purchasing ordinance and only using select bidders isn't wrong to you Kevin?
Must be nice for those select bidders that don't have to worry about too much competition huh? Know any of those bidders Kevin? Davison is a pretty small town isn't it? If the same corrupt bidding process has been used for years I bet you gave those same select bidders some contracts huh?
It would probably suck for those select bidders to have someone like Fred snooping who might screw thing up for them huh Kevin? |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:49 am |
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Kevin McKague
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| Adam, you clearly have no qualms about slandering someone just to defend a fellow conservative. That is not what happened, and not what the article says. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:56 am |
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Kevin McKague
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That's not what the article says, Adam. Hopefully future articles will flesh this story out better.
quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Attorney to investigate Davison mayor, councilman
quote:
DAVISON, Michigan -- Mayor Fred "Mac" Fortner and Councilman Jim Hershberger will be investigated by City Attorney Ridley S. Nimmo.
According to accounts by Martin and other council members -- and not disputed by Fortner and Hershberger -- the pair checked on public works Director Brian Klaassen's practices in soliciting quotes for a pickup truck and accessories.
...
Flewelling read a passage from the city charter that states administration of the city is the purview of the chief appointive officer -- in this instance, Martin -- and of bodies that regulate personnel. The council has a Personnel Committee, headed by Flewelling.
...
Flewelling said interference with day-to-day operations of the city staff is a violation of ordinances. He asked that the council instruct the city attorney to conduct an investigation of alleged ordinance violations by Fortner and Hershberger and take "appropriate action."
Basically, Mayor Fortner and council member Hershberger circumvented charter and council rules AGAIN and set up an investigation into a city employee. They found that the employee had done absolutely nothing wrong, but not before causing a great expense to the city, and raising a great deal of ill-feelings among city employees.
Davison has a Council-Manager government. The council votes on how to direct the City Manager, and then the City Manager is the sole source of direction for the city's many employees. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if all seven members of the council hung out at city hall, as Fortner and Hershberger do, and try to instruct city employees on their own personal agenda?
These guys are out of control, and if the charter allows for it, they should be censured by the council. They must not be allowed to continue using their offices to persecute certain hard-working employees of the city.
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:07 am |
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Adam Ford
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Adam, you clearly have no qualms about slandering someone just to defend a fellow conservative. That is not what happened, and not what the article says.
So why did councilman like you ignore the ordinance? You don't think using a corrupt bidding process sounds a little fishy?
What happened Kevin? Please explain why the proper bidding process was not used and bids were only submitted to select businesses.
I'm not sure Davison should wait on "future articles". I think there should be a full investigation. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Adam, you clearly have no qualms about slandering someone just to defend a fellow conservative. That is not what happened, and not what the article says.
Is it slander to ask questions? Like why didn't you do your job? |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:55 am |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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Attorney to investigate Davison mayor, councilman
quote:
DAVISON, Michigan -- Mayor Fred "Mac" Fortner and Councilman Jim Hershberger will be investigated by City Attorney Ridley S. Nimmo.
According to accounts by Martin and other council members -- and not disputed by Fortner and Hershberger -- the pair checked on public works Director Brian Klaassen's practices in soliciting quotes for a pickup truck and accessories.
...
Flewelling read a passage from the city charter that states administration of the city is the purview of the chief appointive officer -- in this instance, Martin -- and of bodies that regulate personnel. The council has a Personnel Committee, headed by Flewelling.
...
Flewelling said interference with day-to-day operations of the city staff is a violation of ordinances. He asked that the council instruct the city attorney to conduct an investigation of alleged ordinance violations by Fortner and Hershberger and take "appropriate action."
Basically, Mayor Fortner and council member Hershberger circumvented charter and council rules AGAIN and set up an investigation into a city employee. They found that the employee had done absolutely nothing wrong, but not before causing a great expense to the city, and raising a great deal of ill-feelings among city employees.
Davison has a Council-Manager government. The council votes on how to direct the City Manager, and then the City Manager is the sole source of direction for the city's many employees. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if all seven members of the council hung out at city hall, as Fortner and Hershberger do, and try to instruct city employees on their own personal agenda?
These guys are out of control, and if the charter allows for it, they should be censured by the council. They must not be allowed to continue using their offices to persecute certain hard-working employees of the city. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:12 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Basically, Mayor Fortner and council member Hershberger circumvented charter and council rules AGAIN and set up an investigation into a city employee. They found that the employee had done absolutely nothing wrong, but not before causing a great expense to the city, and raising a great deal of ill-feelings among city employees.
Davison has a Council-Manager government. The council votes on how to direct the City Manager, and then the City Manager is the sole source of direction for the city's many employees. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if all seven members of the council hung out at city hall, as Fortner and Hershberger do, and try to instruct city employees on their own personal agenda?
These guys are out of control, and if the charter allows for it, they should be censured by the council. They must not be allowed to continue using their offices to persecute certain hard-working employees of the city.
Basically, Mayor Fortner and council member Hershberger did their job in looking out for the tax payer and found Davison has been following a corrupt bidding process. The "City Manager Dale Martin acknowledged the city has not been complying with city code requirements for advertising for bids when making purchases."
Just imagine if a former councilman like Kevin McKague would have asked a few questions and uncovered a corrupt bidding process instead of being a part of it. Just think how much the taxpayers of Davison may have saved.
These guys should be commended for working in the public interest and looking out for the taxpayer. Perhaps the other council members should be investigated for attempting to cover up a corrupt bidding process that hurts the taxpaying citizens of Davison. Hopefully now Davison city employees will do their job and follow correct procedures and look out for the taxpayer instead of only using "select bidders" that violates Davison own rules.
Although people like Kevin McKague seem to think that public employees are more important than taxpayers it's good to know there are politicians left in our coutny that care about protecting the taxpayer. |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:40 am |
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Kevin McKague
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| Adam, you truly are a man with no scruples. Nothing you have just said is supported by the facts, or the article. Did you think no one would notice? Have you gotten around to the final paragraph of the article yet? It clearly states that nobody defrauded anybody else. Why don't you run along now and let the grown-ups have our conversation? |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:21 am |
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Adam Ford
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Adam, you truly are a man with no scruples. Nothing you have just said is supported by the facts, or the article. Did you think no one would notice? Have you gotten around to the final paragraph of the article yet? It clearly states that nobody defrauded anybody else. Why don't you run along now and let the grown-ups have our conversation?
Just to clarify you. I have no qualms about questioning corrupt government activity. The article stated Davison has been using an improper bidding process in violation of the ordinance which I posted.
The last article states "He (city manager Martin) acknowledged that "the administration deserve(s) a slap on the wrist for not following the purchase ordinance," but he said he's seen nothing to indicate "bad faith" or "untoward intent" by employees."
I understand your city manager might not have much of a problem with a corrupt bidding process that violated the code being used that likely cost taxpayers thousands of dollars at minimum but I do.
Unlike you and Martin I think wasting tax payers dollars deserves a little more than a "slap on the wrist".
Unlike you I also have qualms about taking someone's word as gospel about an improper activity that they may have participated in. Martin admitted:
"City Manager Dale Martin acknowledged the city has not been complying with city code requirements for advertising for bids when making purchases."
So doesn't it make sense that he would only want a "slap on the wrist"?
Also why does Martin and yourself want to brush corruption, whether it be intentional or unintentional under the rug?
In other words I'm with Fred and Hershberger on this one. You can stand by Martin who admitted the ordinance was not followed by his administration and who thinks his administration only deserves a "slap on the wrist".
Do you think Martin should decide what salary he should receive as well.
At my job my employer keeps tabs on things. It must be nice for Martin to have a majority on the council that doesn't want to have him "deal with" any inquries. |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:46 am |
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Brian Warner
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Adam, I may be wasting my time, but I would like to walk with you down a hypothetical path. Are you game?
By the way, Fortner is your uncle isn't he? |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:17 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:54 pm |
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