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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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Forget the hypothetical. I'm smart enough to realize in advance that you aren't going to see this for what it's worth.
You have completely fabricated this idea that "thousands of taxpayer dollars" have been wasted due to this bidding process. There is no evidence of that, and to ASS-U-ME that is irresponsible. The sale also went to a valued local city business. There is something to be said about keeping the money in this city.
You have completely missed the point of this, as usual. All you have done is attempt to glorify the wrongdoings of your two buddies. Two wrongs don't make a right! Yet, you fail to acknowledge that Hersh and Mac did anything wrong. Please tell me that you are not that "corrupt" and running for a State Rep. position. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:32 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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| Fortner is a relative though isn't he? |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:54 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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Well if you don't believe in economics then why even have a bid process? In general though in the real world more competition does lead generally lead to lower prices.
As far as I know I'm not related to Fred Fortner. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:06 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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| There was a better way to address the whole bid thing. These two went about it the wrong way and they are paying the price for it. I cannot support the cause (no matter how good it may be) if someone is going to go about solving it in irrational and illegal ways. Fact is, they didn't have to, they chose to, because they failed to educate themselves in advance on how to properly go about solving the problem they had at hand. |
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Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:18 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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I don't think it shouild be illegal to question an administration that is violating the rules.
Some people like to have their "ducks in a row" so to speak before they fire off accusations especially when it comes to managing a city's finances.
Do you think it's proper for a city council to block any inquiries into an administration? |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:14 pm |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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| I can't speak for Brian, but my opinion hasn't changed since the last three times I explained the answer to that question. |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:11 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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Adam, I don't have a problem with the inquiry regarding the bidding process. I'll say this AGAIN, They did not go about it in a legal manner. They broke the rules in questioning a potential broken rule. Period!
That is what Kevin addressed when he updated this topic, and all of this discussion later, we come back to the same point. |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:57 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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If you define investigating a failure to comply with an ordinance as interfering than yes it would appear under that definition Fred and Jim may have violated your charter. I'm not convinvced investigating = nterfering as you both seem to claim.
You also seem to be making the assumption that Fred and the other guy were not authorized by the council to do any investigating. I agree with this but I think it's a non sequitor argument that since Fred and Jim were not authorized to look into things then they should be punished for investigating since I don't see in your charter were councilman or the public are banned from looking into the actions of the administration.
At best your argument seems shaky. Even if the shaky argument held true in court I wonder if a judge would side with a charter that under your guy's definition would put possible corruption ahead of the public interest.
To me common sense would dictate that a councilman would have to be able to do some investigating to determine if there was merit to bring allegations to the full body. |
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:17 pm |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:51 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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| Adam, you don't have common sense. If you did, we would no longer be talking about this. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:38 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:49 am |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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uh....no
quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Attorney to investigate Davison mayor, councilman
quote:
DAVISON, Michigan -- Mayor Fred "Mac" Fortner and Councilman Jim Hershberger will be investigated by City Attorney Ridley S. Nimmo.
According to accounts by Martin and other council members -- and not disputed by Fortner and Hershberger -- the pair checked on public works Director Brian Klaassen's practices in soliciting quotes for a pickup truck and accessories.
...
Flewelling read a passage from the city charter that states administration of the city is the purview of the chief appointive officer -- in this instance, Martin -- and of bodies that regulate personnel. The council has a Personnel Committee, headed by Flewelling.
...
Flewelling said interference with day-to-day operations of the city staff is a violation of ordinances. He asked that the council instruct the city attorney to conduct an investigation of alleged ordinance violations by Fortner and Hershberger and take "appropriate action."
Basically, Mayor Fortner and council member Hershberger circumvented charter and council rules AGAIN and set up an investigation into a city employee. They found that the employee had done absolutely nothing wrong, but not before causing a great expense to the city, and raising a great deal of ill-feelings among city employees.
Davison has a Council-Manager government. The council votes on how to direct the City Manager, and then the City Manager is the sole source of direction for the city's many employees. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if all seven members of the council hung out at city hall, as Fortner and Hershberger do, and try to instruct city employees on their own personal agenda?
These guys are out of control, and if the charter allows for it, they should be censured by the council. They must not be allowed to continue using their offices to persecute certain hard-working employees of the city.
[/quote] |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:36 am |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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| Thanks Kevin. You were right. I like your idea better. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:44 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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| Am I persecuting you Kevin? |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:10 pm |
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Brian Warner
F L I N T O I D
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| There was a better way to address the whole bid thing. These two went about it the wrong way and they are paying the price for it. I cannot support the cause (no matter how good it may be) if someone is going to go about solving it in irrational and illegal ways. Fact is, they didn't have to, they chose to, because they failed to educate themselves in advance on how to properly go about solving the problem they had at hand. |
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Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:39 pm |
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