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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Flint is auditing water system following reports of major leaks
Published: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 7:00 PM Updated: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 7:43 AM
By Kristin Longley | klongley1@mlive.com
FLINT, Michigan -- Emergency manager Michael Brown's team is conducting a detailed audit of the city's water system after initial estimates show the city is leaking as much as 40 percent of its water, officials said.
The audit report is expected to show the difference between the amount of water that leaves the water plant and the amount that customers are paying to use, said Howard Croft, Brown's director of development and infrastructure.
He said a December 2011 report estimated the city is leaking more than 30 percent and as much as 40 percent of its water -- much higher than the 15 percent or 20 percent that is typically accepted.
File PhotoFlint officials suspect that as much as 40 percent of the treated water leaving the city water treatment plant is lost through leaks.
"We believe we're above normal," he said. "Part of the problem is there has been no real followup or conclusiveness to say this is what it is. That’s why I’ve been pursuing the audit. That’s the only real way to tell."
Croft said the audit will also have a detailed history of rate increases the Detroit water system has charged the city of Flint and how they compare to the rate increases passed on to Flint residents, he said.
"We want an overall picture of how the rates are what they are," Croft said.
Councilman Sheldon Neeley said he's eagerly awaiting the results of the audit, which Croft hopes to have done in the next 30 days. The city increased its water and sewer rates 35 percent in September.
"A lot of folks at home are worried about the increase in their water and sewer rates," he said. "I don't want to see more increases come down the road and we not have a good look at our water and sewer fund."
In the meantime, the city is working to repair two leaks already identified in the system, including a leak in a 72-inch water main near Genesee and Richfield Roads.
"There's no question the leaks need to be addressed," Croft said. "We do have a course of action and within two to three weeks, we expect to be digging."
City Council President Scott Kincaid said water leaks are definitely a concern for the city, especially if the city is losing more than 30 percent of its water.
"We've got a couple areas where the leaks are pretty substantial," he said.
Croft said the city is reviewing bid proposals for the repairs while it works on a plan to address its aging infrastructure, which is about 100 years old.
"Without a plan, you could have leaks for months and months and months and not recognize it," Croft said. "What we’ve been lacking is the ability to diagnose leaks." |
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Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:59 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| Genesee County Drain Commissioner Jeff Wright advised the City on this leak years ago. I believe they patched it once. |
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Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:01 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Consultant: 31 percent of Detroit's fresh drinking water goes down the drain
City was offered pilot leak detection program
DETROIT (WXYZ) - Here we go again with the hip boots.
This time, The Action News Investigators are headed into a big, abandoned, multi-unit building on Cadillac Boulevard. A Channel 7 viewer told us fresh drinking water was gushing out of a wall in the basement.
As I hit the bottom of the basement stairs, I could smell the chlorine. With an Action News photographer in tow, I navigated through a pool in the basement and headed toward the front of the building.
There, fresh drinking water was gushing out of a big pipe and going right down the drain. A neighbor told us it had been flowing for months.
Last month The Action News Investigators found the same thing happening at a house on Marx Street, and another one on Hartwell. A tipster sent us to a big commercial building where the basement was full of water and bubbling out of the foundation.
It’s become a huge problem in Detroit.
When we pressed city officials last week, they acknowledged the problem is vast. They told us they’ve shut off leaking water in 12 thousand vacant houses in the last three years, and those are just the ones they knew about.
All of us pay for this in southeast Michigan because water that leaks out of the system is spread out among everyone’s water and sewer bill.
So why in the world did the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department turn down money to help them find leaks? We’re talking about free money, $300,000 from the State of Michigan for a pilot project.
The plan was to bring in a world-renowned company called MIYA from Israel that has new technology to find leaks in municipal water systems. Detroit was all set to have MIYA team up with a local company, Westin Engineering, to find out where the leaks are in Detroit so they can be fixed.
But the Action News Investigators learned Detroit never used the money so it was offered to Grand Rapids.
“And Grand Rapids accepted it with open arms so that project is now underway in Grand Rapids,” said Oakland County’s Director of Water Resources, John McCulloch. “Grants like this don’t come along every day, and why Detroit didn’t take advantage of it is somewhat of a large question that has yet to be answered.”
It’s especially puzzling when you consider what The Investigators have uncovered over the last few weeks.
We asked the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department Director Darryl Latimer just how much clean drinking water is really leaking in Detroit?
“That number we have for unaccounted water is at 23 percent,” said Darryl Latimer.
But information buried in a consultant’s report obtained by The Action News Investigators paints a much worse picture. It’s a report that was never made public. It was used by MIYA, the Israeli company that specializes in leak detection which put Detroit’s leakage rate at 31 percent. If true, that means nearly one third of the clean drinking water Detroit produces disappears, and much of it goes down the sewer where you pay to have it treated again.
“It’s far outside the realm of reason in terms of what a major system should be experiencing,” said Oakland County’s McCulloch. “That historically is what you do see in third-world countries is a loss of 30 to 40 percent.”
That 31 percent leakage rate came from figures compiled long before the real estate crash and mass abandonment of homes, many of which are leaking water.
That suggests the leakage rate today could be even worse.
So why did the Detroit water department turn down that free money to locate leaks?
“The director at that time didn’t want to pursue that contract because it would have called for the department to expend and additional $700,000,” said Latimer.
But that doesn’t jibe with records obtained by The Investigators.
We obtained a copy of the contract for the leak detection program. Pamela Turner, Detroit’s Water and Sewerage Director at the time, signed it in September of 2009.
A letter cancelling the project was sent out almost a year later, after Turner had retired.
Latimer signed the paperwork cancelling the deal.
As for the $700,000 Latimer said the city would have to spend on the Israeli deal?
“There may have been some minor costs in terms of adding additional access pits to the water system. I can't see why they would spend $700 thousand dollars,” said Oakland County’s McCullough.
Five weeks after Detroit cancelled the Israeli company’s contract, the city consultant that produced the never-published report got an extension on its contract for $1,600,000.
Latimer says another reason for cancelling the Israeli contract is that the city tried their technology and it didn’t work.
“We piloted that company that was brought in for some difficult leaks to locate and they were unsuccessful,” said Latimer.
Latimer said the Israeli method proved no more successful than the department’s current leak detection contractor but he couldn’t provide any documentation that the Israeli program was ever tried.
Latimer said the city was never made aware of the Israeli firm’s 31 percent leakage estimate.
He said the report used by the Israelis was never published because the city disagreed with some of its assumptions and later amended it.
The City of Farmington Hills also won a state grant to use MIYA from Israel for leak detection. Their work is finished and they estimate the savings for ratepayers to be about one million dollars over seven years, more than they were anticipating.
Read more: http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/consultant%3A-31-percent-of-detroit's-fresh-drinking-water-is-going-down-the-drain-and-you-pay-for-it#ixzz1mT2Htnix |
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Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:09 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Detroit water users also must pay a portion of their infrastructure costs!
Leaky pipes create heavy water loss, cost for Detroit
August2002
U.S. Water News Online
DETROIT -- Gallons of water leaking from water pipes in the 126 communities served by Detroit water are costing residents millions of dollars.
Detroit-area residents are paying an estimated $23 million this year for water that never reaches homes and businesses. More than 35 billion gallons of fresh, clean water leaks from Detroit water pipes each year, according to water department officials.
The water loss is not good news, but ``that's the reality in a water system that is this large and this old,'' said George Ellenwood, public affairs manager for the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department.
In recent documents, Detroit water officials claim older pipes in the 3,700-mile-long water delivery network ``continue to serve patrons just fine'' and contend ``the level of unaccounted-for water is good.''
The city of Detroit charges suburbs for pumping fresh water to each community's boundary. From there, each suburb is responsible for building and maintaining all water lines to homes and businesses.
Experts say Detroit's leaks are relatively normal, but say officials could make the system more efficient.
Ken Brothers, a leading water-loss prevention consultant to the American Water Works Association, estimates the amount of fresh water unaccounted for because of leaky pipes and bad meters ranges from 10 percent to 40 percent of all the water pumped in the United States and around the world.
Detroit loses 17 percent of the water it pumps through the system.
Pipes in many systems, including Detroit's, date back generations. Many were made in the World War II era, when the best materials went to the war effort, not water distribution, Brothers said.
The lost water is reflected in bills paid by every household whose water comes from the Detroit system.
Detroit has raised water rates for all city and suburban customers five times in the past seven years. The department is in the middle of a $7 billion capital improvement program, ``but replacing the whole system would cost billions and billions of dollars,'' Ellenwood said. ``It would be totally unreasonable to tear it all up and start over.''
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Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:13 am |
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surrealchereal
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
WHAT DOES A 40% LOSS IN WATER MEAN FOR OUR BILLS?
Nothing if they don't do anything to fix it. |
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Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:12 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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quote:
surrealchereal schreef:
quote:
WHAT DOES A 40% LOSS IN WATER MEAN FOR OUR BILLS?
Nothing if they don't do anything to fix it.
Flint has been aware of problems with the 72 inch line for many years. The loss in water means customers are paying Detroit for water they don't receive-water lost in the pipes. Add the cost of the water lost in Detroit, which is significant, to the water lost here and bills are higher than they should be.
Instead of investing in Smith Village and now in Metawaneenee (remember Walling wanted 500 new houses near downtown Flint) Flint could have asked for money to improve the water and sewer infrastructure.
In 2009 the EPA announced $236 million for water infrastructure improvements . Our city has an estimated need for $50 to $75 million for such improvements. |
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Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:58 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| Water leaks grow in size and create sinkholes and other problems. |
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Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:59 pm |
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mickey
F L I N T O I D
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It is really mind-boggling situation as water leakage causes in DETROIT area 35 billion gallons of fresh water is wasted completely this is really heavy loss.
According to the survey the world's having limited supply of fresh drinking water that seriously requires careful management. Yet according to the 2012 Report Card for America's Infrastructure, prepared by Civil Engineers of the American Society, "Each day, 6 billion gallons of drinking and fresh water vanished, mostly due to old, leaky pipes that cannot able to serve to the population of California. The California Department of Water Resources estimates that about 81 billion gallons of water leaks from municipal systems in the state each year.
I suggest you that we shall overcome this situation by standing on our feet and
handle the situation calmly ,in our home we must close the taps and we can use water as little as possible that will definitely help other peoples that are living in arid areas. |
_________________
Water leak Detection
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Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:24 am |
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TruthTalk
F L I N T O I D
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| I have been in some abandoned houses that hav e all the pipes stolen, who would of guessed that. Anyways the water from the 2 in main line was running full blast straight down. The sewer.imagine how much water that is when it runs for weeks.months? Even after the water dep. Is told it takes weeks for them to come out to shut it off. But it doesnt matter when u can just tax the piss out of water that is metered. I would say the numbers closer to 55 - 65 % LOSS |
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Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:41 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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I just saw a story that it takes 8 days for new customers to get their water turned on.
Good Point Truth talk. Fox 2 in Detroit did a story about water leaks, sometimes in commercial buildings, that lost huge amounts of water for months and up to a year.
Water lost in the system affects all of us. |
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Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:32 am |
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daniel
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
mickey schreef:
It is really mind-boggling situation as water leakage causes in DETROIT area 35 billion gallons of fresh water is wasted completely this is really heavy loss.
According to the survey the world's having limited supply of fresh drinking water that seriously requires careful management. Yet according to the 2012 Report Card for America's Infrastructure, prepared by Civil Engineers of the American Society, "Each day, 6 billion gallons of drinking and fresh water vanished, mostly due to old, leaky pipes that cannot able to serve to the population of California. The California Department of Water Resources estimates that about 81 billion gallons of water leaks from municipal systems in the state each year.
I suggest you that we shall overcome this situation by standing on our feet and
handle the situation calmly ,in our home we must close the taps and we can use water as little as possible that will definitely help other peoples that are living in arid areas.
I couldn't agree more. |
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Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:36 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Agencies fielding pleas for help with higher Flint water bills
By Kristin Longley | klongley1@mlive.com
on December 26, 2012 at 7:00 AM, updated December 26, 2012 at 7:01 AM
GENESEE COUNTY, MI -- The calls for help come at all times of the day and night, usually infused with desperation: Can you help me with my water bill?
Including the most recent rate hike in July, water and sewer rates in the city of Flint have increased a about 110 percent since January 2011, leading to an increase in people seeking assistance with their bills.
A family that used to pay about $50 for water and sewer now pays about $105.
"It's atrocious," said Barbara Griffith-Wilson, executive director of the nonprofit TR Harris Community Development Corp.
Griffith-Wilson's agency used to get calls about all sorts of issues, ranging from gas bills to groceries, but lately the focus has shifted squarely to water bills, she said.
"Today, every call I received was about water," she said Thursday. "It's been all about water all this month."
Catholic Outreach of Flint has also seen an increase in calls about water, they said.
The city attributed its double-digit rate increases to a combination of factors, including higher personnel costs, fewer customers, aging infrastructure and rate increases passed on from the city's primary source of water, the city of Detroit.
City officials say the number of residents who get their water shut off for non-payment hasn't changed much.
The city consistently does about 120 shutoffs for nonpayment per week, said Jason Lorenz, Flint public information officer. Of those, about 50 percent will get their water turned back on within a week, and 80 percent will have it back on within a month, he said.
Still, it's clear more Flint residents are having trouble grappling with the higher bills.
"That's still a dilemma for me that I hear about all the time," Flint emergency financial manager Ed Kurtz said.
The city already allows residents to arrange payment plans, but recently passed a new measure.
Kurtz signed an ordinance Dec. 14 to create an "indigent water fund" in Flint that would allow others to donate to a pool of money used to help qualifying residents pay their overdue bills.
The fund would be administered by a nonprofit entity, such as United Way, Kurtz said.
"I hope (the fund) helps," he said.
Griffith-Wilson said the water fund is an excellent idea, but she would caution the city to choose an agency that doesn't charge a lot of overhead so most of the money goes where it's needed.
She said she's hoping to schedule a meeting soon between herself, council members and members of the administration "to talk about alleviating some of this pain" from water shutoffs.
She said there should be a moratorium on water shutoffs during the holidays, and the city should also try to educate more residents on the available water payment plan, and how to accurately read their water meters.
"If more people knew, they would take advantage of it," she said.
One of her most recent calls came from a woman with five kids. The woman has a job, but recently had her hours cut, and hasn't been able to scrape together enough to cover her water bill, she said.
"The working poor are the ones who are having a really hard time," she said. "Something needs to be done." |
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Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:47 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Phillip LaBarge
According Howard Croft we dont need people to read the meters, computer sofeware does that for them. Did you know some of the pipes are made of wood from over 100 years ago? Why is it they cant have people report leaks to the city because either A no one answers the phones or B one secretary for a city of 100,000 people is not enough? Call sometime and sit on hold to report a leak after an hour you just hang up. But I bet all those people get a paycheck. The computer prints it, right?
mackatron
I have litttle sympathy for the remaining stupid people living in Democratic/UAW Party Flint where they constantly complain about their water and sewer bill when they gladly pay the cell phone, booze, Ipod and cable TV internet bill with ease.
Shanedr
So of those who have water shut off for non-payment fifty percent have water shut off for a week and eighty percent of the rest have it back on in a month. If you have water shut off for a "day" the house is not livable.
As usual city workers haven't a clue about what they are doing to people. They also ignore inconvenient facts such as the sewer lines and hook-ups for Smith Village were charged to the water fund. The city has a long history of charging Peter (citizens) to pay Paul (pet official projects). What we really need is for the state - not the emergency manager who has a vested interest in grabbing all the money he can get - to audit the entire water department from money received to money paid out. Because the water bills are being used to pay far more than just water and sewer costs.
superwrench
I thank God that I have a well & a septic system! Well life 25+ years. Pump replacement $1500. Septic system pumping every 7 years, $300. Total cost is less than $100 PER YEAR!!! Another reason to leave Flint!!! There isn't near as much crime in the country, either!!! I can go outside and not have to worry about being robbed or shot! YEP, COUNTRY LIVIN' IS THE LIFE FOR ME!!!
spacebatman
"The city attributed its double-digit rate increases to a combination of
factors, including higher personnel costs, fewer customers, aging infrastructure and rate increases passed on from the city's primary
source of water, the city of Detroit.City officials say
infrastructure and City officials say the number of residents who get their water shut off
for non-payment hasn't changed much.
The city consistently does about 120 shutoffs for nonpayment per week, said Jason Lorenz"
The city has decreased in size so shouldn't the shutoffs
jaymckay
Is there an end in sight? Will the rate increases bottom out?
Ted Jankowski
If the City wins the Lawsuit with Williamson they should put a part of that into that fund.
Another thing. How about charging your friends from the Mott Foundation and uptown development 10.5 Million for the geneses towers and put that money towards the Water bills of All citizens. Especially considering it was the Flint City attorney who was also (to my understanding) the Attorney for the Mott Foundation and Uptown during the Lawsuit against them. Until Walling was elected and then He convinced Kumar Vemulapalli to drop the case against Uptown and the Mott Foundation.
djfx
In the meantime, Mike Brown, who's idea was to increase the water bills, continues to receive 160 K per year in salary......
pseudonym-name
The City will continue to raise the rate until Flint is not an affordable place to live. Looking forward Flint needs to begin "thinking out of the box" and find a solution for the sake of those many people who cannot afford to purchase water. What is more important to you 1) having water; or 2) ObamaCare (The Affordable Care Act). Our representatives in politics are either 1) clueless as to the priority of our needs; or 2) do not care about us and only advancing their careers at our expense. Their party does not matter. They belong to the same club and we are excluded from membership.
superwrench likes this.
DWCBOB
Our "representatives" only "care" about us at election time. Once the election is over, they don't need us any more.
superwrench likes this.
untanglingwebs
Water is only a portion of the bil. My last sewer service charge was $32 and was higher than the the sewer charge. Kristen should have compared charges between the county and the city. Service charges on the bill are 47% and growing. What about the 20% that don't get their water turned on in a month? families can lose their children for having a home without water.
untanglingwebs
Terrible article by Kristen and obviously initiated by Griffith-Wilson. Flint no longer allows hold by agencies so when the water is shut off, the agency paying now must pay higher amounts. FIA , Salvation Army, GCCARD, and catholic Servivces are traditionally the agencies that pay the most. Have you looked at T R Harris and their 990's. Not a major player by any means. Lazy reporting.
jacobsmith
The real question is why a utility that is supposed to be maintained for the common good has had triple digit price increases without a change in labor or material cost.
This is merely another illegal tax pushed into place before the EFM started to rescue us from Williamson/Walling/Flint voters.
superwrench likes this.
majfl
There is no mention of leakage and service theft in the article.
superwrench likes this.
Anita P. Niss
Seems like the city is doing nothing about theft and leakage of water.
Seems like they really don't care, so long as they pass the bill onto those of us that pay.
You and superwrench like this.
Ted Jankowski
Why should they when they can just raise our rates to cover their losses.
superwrench likes this.
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:00 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Searched for: T.R. HARRIS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
ID Num: 773909
Entity Name: T.R. HARRIS COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION
Type of Entity: Domestic Nonprofit Corporation
Resident Agent: BARBARA GRIFFITH-WILSON
Registered Office Address: 2014 CROCKER AVE FLINT MI 48503
Mailing Address: MI
Formed Under Act Number(s): 162-1982
Incorporation/Qualification Date: 2-7-2002
Jurisdiction of Origin: MICHIGAN
Number of Shares: 0
Year of Most Recent Annual Report: 12
Year of Most Recent Annual Report With Officers & Directors: 10
Status: ACTIVE Date: Present |
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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:11 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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In 2010 the T R Harris President was Gregory a Eason. He was also President in 2008 and 2009.
In 2008 and 2009 Charles Young III was shown as a Director and used his Southfield Michigan address.
Barbara Griffith-Wilson worked with Alex Harris and Eason on the Williamson recall and she worked on the wallng campaign. Allegedly she ran campaign literature out of the Brennan Center. She was the only non profit allowed to operate out of a city building, the Brennan Center. Williamson put her out but walling and Eason restored her office. Council persons finance the parties she gives for children.
She has gone to council and misrepresented the Walling and Eason positions on HUD and wants to be considered for HUD funding. |
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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:24 pm |
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