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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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Kenyatta Dotson, Administrator, and Reverend Martez Warren of Church Without Walls, who concentrates his ministry on the 11-21 age group, are posting pictures of homicide victims along with news clippings and obituaries, on a bulletin board in their church to give faces to homicide victims. Ms. Warren is quoted in the Flint Journal as saying, "We also are asking any families who would like their stories about the victims to run alongside their picture to call us," she said. "We are hoping to have the same effect as the AIDS blankets from a few years ago had when people see these awareness boards."
In the interest of the surviving families involved I would urge these well-meaning church people to do a little more research before publishing photos or any other information about these unfortunate victims. First of all, the surviving families have a right to privacy. Secondly, many of the homicide victims could have been participating in behavior that led to their unfortunate demise and it could be hurtful or embarrassing if their family member is publicly identified. If the names and faces are made public, you can be assured there would be someone in the news media to do a followup story by investigating the court records of these victims as well. To publish the names and faces of homicide victims without permission from surviving families and having their full consent acknowledging the possible disclosure of additional information by other sources should be given further serious consideration to prevent undesirable results.
Reference: http://www.mlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news-41/1168177824248400.xml&coll=5
"Church hopes faces of the dead speak to the horrors of homicide" |
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Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:09 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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Personally, I'd rather see these churches developing a group of leaders to go into the schools and work with the younger kids. Giving these kids role models, parental figures and guidance. Before they grow up and become statistics on youth crime and violence.
If they really want to put a face on it. Go into the schools and look at the kids who don't have parents that show up for parent teacher conferences, or for the parents that berate the teachers, for disciplining little jonnie because he wants to stand on his desk. It's a pretty good prediction that these behaviorally challenged kids will one day end up on the wrong side of the judicial system. How about these churches stop identifying the victims and start reaching out to the kids that need their help, before they commit these crimes!
I honestly don't know if it will work. But I sure don't think it wouldn’t hurt. I certainly believe it would do more good than putting up the victims pictures in the churches. I doubt the criminal that caused those people to become victims, don't go to church. Nor would they me moved to change their ways, because a church has a picture on the wall of the person they killed. I’m not trying to be rude or mean. It’s just there are so many more productive things that need to be done. Now, if they wanted to put these people’s picture up at City Hall or the Mayors office or even in the police department. I would think that might do a bit more good! |
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Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:00 am |
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Ryan Eashoo
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| Good point Ted. |
_________________
Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com |
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Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:59 pm |
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pissed off ma ma bear
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| It wont bring our Son Back to us,,,,and I dont believe killers and drug dealers attend church anyway,,,,maybe they should post pics of the killers,,,,and theh killers ma ma,,,and the killers daddys,,,and the killers family,,,,so we the public can be warned who to stay away from,,,, |
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Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:26 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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| That's pretty heavy, Mama Bear. You make it sound as if the entire family is responsible for their adult child's behavior. That's not fair. Don't you think they share your grief? Don't you think they feel shame and pain, too? I'm sorry for your loss, but no matter how hard we try to raise children right, we are not responsible for the acts of adult children. They make their own choices to do right or wrong. If your adult son had robbed a bank or murdered someone, would you take the responsibility for his actions? I think not. Nor should the family of the person who took your son's life beheld responsible for his actions. They are feeling the pain, too. |
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Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:17 am |
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DELETED
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Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:19 am |
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DEMCAD
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People need to take responsibility for their own actions. The violence won't end until these kids are given more economic opportunities. If you grow up poor and you don't have any attractive life chances then you will lose the incentive to give a damn. That's why it's so easy to kill people.
It's as much about economics (poverty) as morality.
People just don't care. They think to themselves....
-Why should I comfort to society's rules if I am not going to have a realistic chance to achieve the American Dream?
People feel as though they have nothing to lose and therefore they are willing to do anything to get what they want. Even if it's just respect. |
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Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:40 pm |
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that is probably the most ridiculous and stupid response I've ever read...............
These kids are not 'Poor".......thei're just bored.......................they need to realize that without an education................they will amount to NOTHING in the long run.............
Quit trying to make excuses for them....................the reality is they're a bunch of lazy animals who don't feel the pressure or see the necessity of performing well in school............................that's not my fault or your fault...........it's the fault of the idiot parent..........(notice I use parent in the singular............because any child who comes from a stable two-parent household will be on the right track.
Enough of the kid gloves..............let's call a spade a spade........................the thugs of flint are the result of lack of parenting.............so hold the parents responsible. |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:45 am |
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Guest
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quote:
Anonymous schreef:
These kids are not 'Poor".......thei're just bored.......................they need to realize that without an education................they will amount to NOTHING in the long run.............
it's the fault of the idiot parent..........(notice I use parent in the singular............because any child who comes from a stable two-parent household will be on the right track.
Enough of the kid gloves..............let's call a spade a spade........................the thugs of flint are the result of lack of parenting.............so hold the parents responsible.
You are so full of it you need an enema! The aging senior citizen parents of a college-educated "gifted" (intellectually) student, now adult, who chooses to sleep on the street and shop-lift alcohol or shoot for drugs to satisfy his substance cravings instead of leading a productive life, do not deserve to be blamed for his idiocy. They provided for him while they were legally responsible, they do not enable him, and they are not to blame for his actions! They, too, would like for him to be productive and obey laws but they do not, nor can they, control him any more than they can control you! |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:51 pm |
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Tegan
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There really isn't one answer or one reason or one person to blame. I'm sure plenty of drug addicts and shoplifters are being coddled and defended by their parents. These are the parents whose children can do no wrong. This problem DOES show up early on and parents encourage it by saying, "It's not my child's fault they failed. It's the teacher's fault. They don't like my child." (And this can happen with two parents as well as single parents). It continues on in adulthood. "They didn't hire me because they only hire attractive people" or "They are racist" (and I've heard that excuse from both white and black people in Flint) or even "I'm not working unless I can make $9 an hour."
Then there are people who give up easily. They don't have the money they think they need to succeed. (And really, that is the basic problem.) Without money, they can't buy nicer clothes, or a higher education. So maybe they shop-lift and don't get caught. Well it's so easy, who needs to get a job? And what happens if you do get caught? You go to jail where your room and board is essentially free.
There are people out there who genuinely need help and support and understanding. But rolling them all into one and ignoring those who are just lazy or selfish doesn't help anyone and insults those who are trying.
I think that if we keep saying, "It's not your fault because you are poor," people will think that they can't do anything about it. I don't advocate leaving Flint or Michigan, but if someone needs to travel down south to find jobs and take care of their family and remove them from an otherwise crappy situation, they should.
And that's my rant. Maybe I'm naive. |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:03 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Tegan schreef:
There really isn't one answer or one reason or one person to blame. I'm sure plenty of drug addicts and shoplifters are being coddled and defended by their parents. These are the parents whose children can do no wrong. This problem DOES show up early on and parents encourage it by saying, "It's not my child's fault they failed. It's the teacher's fault. They don't like my child." (And this can happen with two parents as well as single parents). It continues on in adulthood. "They didn't hire me because they only hire attractive people" or "They are racist" (and I've heard that excuse from both white and black people in Flint) or even "I'm not working unless I can make $9 an hour."
Then there are people who give up easily. They don't have the money they think they need to succeed. (And really, that is the basic problem.) Without money, they can't buy nicer clothes, or a higher education. So maybe they shop-lift and don't get caught. Well it's so easy, who needs to get a job? And what happens if you do get caught? You go to jail where your room and board is essentially free.
There are people out there who genuinely need help and support and understanding. But rolling them all into one and ignoring those who are just lazy or selfish doesn't help anyone and insults those who are trying.
I think that if we keep saying, "It's not your fault because you are poor," people will think that they can't do anything about it. I don't advocate leaving Flint or Michigan, but if someone needs to travel down south to find jobs and take care of their family and remove them from an otherwise crappy situation, they should.
And that's my rant. Maybe I'm naive.
Tegan, you're not naive at all. You make good points.
However, we need to stop using the term, "poor" in this country , because there really is no such thing compared to the rest of the world.
So called poor people are "missed opportunists" |
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Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:36 pm |
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pissed off ma ma bear
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| WELL THIS IS HOW WE RAISED OUR CHILDREN,,,,,We may not have went to church when they were little every SUNDAY,,,,but I drove my children to SUNDAY school every Sunday,,,,and made sure my children learned who GOD is,,,,,and the 10 commandments,,,,,,I enrolled them every summer in vacation bible school,,,,my boys were BOY SCOUTS,,,,My oldest Son made EAGLE SCOUT,,,,which I doubt some even know what this is,,,,,My Son who was murdered ADAM had a very hard time learning,,,had a very hard time with school,,,,his dad wanted him to be a engineer,,,he said DAD,,,I cant do the book work,,,I know I cant,,,can I be a Mechanic,,,he loved working on cars,,,his dad told him,,,its gona be rough,,,for ya,,,money wise,,,well he made it through college,,,,,he did it,,,,we were so proud of him,,,after working in several MOM an POP Garages he finally landed a Job a ta GM Dealership,,,making finally after 6 yrs some good money,,,,bought his own home at 23 yrs old,,,,worked from 6 am till 7 pm every night including Saturdays,,,then came home and worked on his friends race cars,,,and other peoples cars for extra money so he could race his car at the TRACKS,,,,,He loved racing,,,,,he had a excellent CREDIT SCORE,,,,,he was a very kind person,,,,liked everyone,,,,Black,,,White,,, Mexican,,,Adam had so many people who loved him,,,a Black friend even spoke at his funeral about how much he loved our Son,,,,how he has known adam since he was a young teenager and watched him grow in to a KING of RACING, Our son finally just got his Master Mechanic License form the STATE of MICHIgan,,,My husband was going to retire and open a shop with my son,,,they were going to work on cars together and sell cars,,,,this is all ruined,,,we wake up every morninig with the reality we do not have ADAM anymore,,,,Why,,,,,????? Because someone did not raise thier children to repsect HUMAN LIFE,,,,,,as I have always said,,,,IF this killer had known my Adam,,,,he never would have shot him ,,,,he did not even know my ADAM ,,,,being poor is no excuse for violence,,,,my parents were poor,,,my grand parents were poor,,,they were not murderers,,,,,as I have said and will continue to say,,,,RAISE YOUR KIDS RIGHT,,,IF THEY DO WRONG AND STEAL ,,,,do what my mom did when I was little,,,,she took me up to the store and made me give back the item to the store manager,,,,spy on your kids,,,,do they ask their children,,,where did you get the money for all that gold??? Where did you get the money for those 200 hundred dollar tennis shoes,,,,where did you get the money for those expensive clothes,,,,no,,,they turn the other cheek,,,then cry when their worthless child they did not raise right kills a child that was raised right,,,go cry to someone else,,,,,you raised the animals to be animals |
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Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:11 am |
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the-brights.net
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quote:
pissed off ma ma bear schreef:
WELL THIS IS HOW WE RAISED OUR CHILDREN,,,,,We may not have went to church when they were little every SUNDAY,,,,but I drove my children to SUNDAY school every Sunday,,,,and made sure my children learned who GOD is,,,,,and the 10 commandments,,,,,,I enrolled them every summer in vacation bible school,,,,my boys were BOY SCOUTS,,,,My oldest Son made EAGLE SCOUT,,,,which I doubt some even know what this is,,,,,My Son who was murdered ADAM had a very hard time learning,,,had a very hard time with school,,,,his dad wanted him to be a engineer,,,he said DAD,,,I cant do the book work,,,I know I cant,,,can I be a Mechanic,,,he loved working on cars,,,his dad told him,,,its gona be rough,,,for ya,,,money wise,,,well he made it through college,,,,,he did it,,,,we were so proud of him,,,after working in several MOM an POP Garages he finally landed a Job a ta GM Dealership,,,making finally after 6 yrs some good money,,,,bought his own home at 23 yrs old,,,,worked from 6 am till 7 pm every night including Saturdays,,,then came home and worked on his friends race cars,,,and other peoples cars for extra money so he could race his car at the TRACKS,,,,,He loved racing,,,,,he had a excellent CREDIT SCORE,,,,,he was a very kind person,,,,liked everyone,,,,Black,,,White,,, Mexican,,,Adam had so many people who loved him,,,a Black friend even spoke at his funeral about how much he loved our Son,,,,how he has known adam since he was a young teenager and watched him grow in to a KING of RACING, Our son finally just got his Master Mechanic License form the STATE of MICHIgan,,,My husband was going to retire and open a shop with my son,,,they were going to work on cars together and sell cars,,,,this is all ruined,,,we wake up every morninig with the reality we do not have ADAM anymore,,,,Why,,,,,????? Because someone did not raise thier children to repsect HUMAN LIFE,,,,,,as I have always said,,,,IF this killer had known my Adam,,,,he never would have shot him ,,,,he did not even know my ADAM ,,,,being poor is no excuse for violence,,,,my parents were poor,,,my grand parents were poor,,,they were not murderers,,,,,as I have said and will continue to say,,,,RAISE YOUR KIDS RIGHT,,,IF THEY DO WRONG AND STEAL ,,,,do what my mom did when I was little,,,,she took me up to the store and made me give back the item to the store manager,,,,spy on your kids,,,,do they ask their children,,,where did you get the money for all that gold??? Where did you get the money for those 200 hundred dollar tennis shoes,,,,where did you get the money for those expensive clothes,,,,no,,,they turn the other cheek,,,then cry when their worthless child they did not raise right kills a child that was raised right,,,go cry to someone else,,,,,you raised the animals to be animals
Ma ma bear: I'm very sorry about your loss. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to lose a child.
You're absolutely right: "poor" does not equal violence...........lazy, apathetic, parenting = lack of respect for life = violence. |
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Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:14 am |
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Guest
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There's no easy answer... no simple cause.
I've known people who come from horrible homes, yet turned out to be wonderful people.
One man, on the other hand, came from a warm, loving home with great parents. He had a great education. He was taught all the right values - to be caring, kind and considerate.
Some years ago he was convicted of murder as part of a home invasion of an elderly person. He is in prison.
Too often, when someone says there is a simple reason or reasons for a problem, they are only identifying their own personal dislikes and prejudices.
In other words, their statements only tell you about the speakers shortcomings.... |
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Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:35 pm |
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